Two fellow NCRS friends and myself pulled the NOM out of my 60 (the Montana Legend) yesterday. The engine in the 60 is an original 67 SS Camaro engine. I have the history on the acquisition of the engine. The pad jives with the story. I hope to sell this engine to a Camaro enthusiest later to help pay for corvette parts. This 60 was parked in 74 to date. # 8 hole has a lot of rust in it from a leaking head gasket. How should I proceed to remove these pistons or should I let a pro take this job on. As of now the intake and heads are off. I will remove the pan and hopefully the crank today. Anyone! Thanks Dick Gutman
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Re: Rust in cylinder walls
PS. Will hot tanking remove this rust?? -
Product on the internet
There was some product being hawked on e-bay that showed a rusty engine cylinder that was then cleaned with their stuff and it came out clean - does it really work? Who knows!
I would FIRST contact my machine shop to see how much they charge to remove such a piston. If it's $100 or less, I would pay the professional to do it. They rightly get P*^%ed off when an amateur first botches the job and then they are expected to fix it. Also, whatever chemical you use could react with what they use and injure the machinist.
Then again, if the piston is not stuck in the hole, move it down the bore a little and use some emery cloth to clean the crusty stuff out.
Good luck,
MarkComment
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Re: Product on the internet
Thanks for the reply Mark. I plan on calling some preferred machine shops on Monday. I was looking for a heads up for ideas on what to do. Maybe someone has some personal experience on this website. DGComment
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Re: Rust in cylinder walls
I can't remember if the piston will come out the bottom or not. Depending on if the piston is up or down, I would try to take it the shortest distance out of the cylinder. I would also soak the cylinders with penetrating oil. All depends also on how badly rusted things are. If it is really bad, I would not try to slide it out. Other option is this, if it has an aluminum piston, you could liquidate it with a torch in no time flat. Strip the block and put the engine on a stand. Start a little off center in the thin area of the piston and work in a circle untill it disappears. Once you get a hole in the top of the piston the aluminum will simply flow out the bottom end of the engine. Liquid aluminum won't like the cylinder and any that seems to stick will just pop off when cool. I have never tried this but I have played with aluminum and you can pretty much count on it running away very fast from a large torch tip. I would do it outside on a cement pad. With a rusty cylinder you don't have too much to loose. If really rusty, I would be worried about doing more damage as you try to slide the piston out. The real kicker is where the rings sat. It will have a tendency to pit at that location. I have learned that from taking apart stuck tractor engines. A lot can be lived with on a single cylinder if you can accept that it won't be perfect.
Sort of a drag because all the other cylinders my stay standard or go 30 over but that rusty cylinder may take 60 to clean up or have to be sleeved. In that case, I am not sure what I would do.
I am not an expert (PRO) though. I have never heard this suggested so I expect someone will say it is nuts. To me, I would have fun trying I suspect that eventually I would get the piston out of there.
Terry
Take care, TerryComment
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Re: Product on the internet
Dick,
I think calling a machine shop is probably the best idea. If it's just #8 piston, try a good penetrating oil for the rings and use the crankshaft to rock it loose. If the engine is out of the car you can use the flywheel bolts and a bar for leverage to turn the crank.Comment
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Re: Rust in cylinder walls
Dick
I have taken pistons like this out in the past but I'm not in a hurry when I do it so I just pour diesel fuel in the cylinder and let it soak for a few days or weeks depending on how bad it is. Rotate the block so that the fuel covers the head of the piston and the fuel will be able to soak in all around the piston and rings.
After the diesel fuel has done it's work take a good block of hardwood and try and break the piston free(large brass or aluminum drifts also work). Don't be afraid to hit it either!! Place the wood on one of the piston pin bosses to knock it out, but if it doesn't move, try and knock it the other way(think you said the crank would be out). The piston won't fit out of the bottom of the cylinder but it will have enough room to move a bit. Once you get it to move a bit all you need to do is work it back and forth like freeing a rusty bolt and it will eventualy come out.
I have taken several pistons like this out in the past with no problems and you might be suprised to find that it isn't seized near as bad as you think!
One word of caution though is to be carefull to only hit the piston and not get the hardwood or drift wedged between the piston and cylinder and just keep beating on it. I gave this same advice to a friend of mine with a 389 and this was his result.
Let me know how it all works out for you.
GregComment
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Re: Rust in cylinder walls
Having done this a number of times..........................
If you have already done the kind things to the engine to either remove the piston or move it and it won't because it is chemically welded to the cylinder I'd suggest:
First off, don't use a long pry bar on the crank to turn the engine. You can bend a connecting rod.
Remove the crank if you can. Sometimes a stuck piston will not allow you to rotate the crank to get at all the rod cap nuts to pull the crank out.
Get a piece of solid steel bar stock about 1" X 1" X 15" and a short handle five pound sledge hammer. From the bottom side of the bore, knock H... out of the bottom of the piston on the bottom of the pin bosses. First one side, then the other. If you haven't gotten the rod cap off first, as the piston moves up in the bore (and it WILL move) it will rotate the crank and you can get the rod nuts off. You can't be timid. You have to lay into it. I've had some that took maybe 50 licks with the hammer to knock it out of the bore.
I've never found oil or diesel fuel to be helpful at all if the piston would not go up or down first.
The hot tanks that used to eat pistons are no longer in service, I don't believe. Not in your average machine shop.
If there is a Reddi-Strip place near you, they can soak the block and probably disolve the piston(s).
I've been told that Jasper Engine Exchange, who is a major rebuilder of engines here in Indiana has a very high dollar dip tank they dip their rusted cores in prior to rebuilding for just such a purpose as yours.
I'm guessing the machine shop will tell you they'll have to drive the piston out like I described. If you hear of a better way I'd like to know. I have one more vintage 327 short block I need to strip and I'd like a little cleaner and easier way to get all 8 of the stuck pistons out.Comment
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Re: Rust in cylinder walls PS
The last time I did this, I got out the torch and thought I'd heat the pistons just about to the melting point and see if this would break them loose from the cylinder walls. It didn't. The thought crossed my mind briefly about Terry's suggestion. To melt the piston out. Then I thought, "what if the pistons melt and the rings are still stuck to the bores"? Now what? That would probably make a shop owner give you a tap between the eyes with a ball peen.Comment
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Re: Rust in cylinder walls PS
Well, I got the crank out. Then I proceeded to remove 6 of the 8 pistons. #2 and #8 are stuck. Again, I soaked them down with WD40. I wish I had Kroil on hand, but I don't. I'll try again tommorow night. Thanks for the replies. DGComment
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Re: Rust in cylinder walls PS
Don't laugh but pour Coca Cola (not Pepsi) in the bore and let soak for a few days, piston will free up. Terry RobertsonComment
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Re: Rust in cylinder walls
Greg------
The damage that you have pictured is typical of the sort of damage that can result when heavy impactive force is used to remove stuck pistons. More often, one simply ends up with a cracked cylinder wall. In extreme cases, one ends up with the pictured result.In Appreciation of John HinckleyComment
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Re: Rust in cylinder walls PS
Seriously speaking, I have heard of this before. I wonder if it will mix well with wd40. I don't mean to drink it either. I like crown and coke. Thanks DGComment
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