Judging view on 1969 engine mounts.....

[Greg L.]

I'm at a crossroads here and I could use some advice.

I recently had a posting about the engine mounts(locking type) on my 69 which was built Jan31/69.

https://www.ncrs.org/forum/tech.cgi/noframes/read/240007

The majority of the evidence and consensus point to them being original to my car but they supposedly were not used untill 1970. I suppose that to follow the norm, I should replace them with the "original" non locking ones, however I feel that I would be deviating from the originality of the car if I did this.

I remember reading in one of the manuals about deviations from normal production and that it had to be documented to receive full points. How would one document this situation to receive the proper points as the evidence seems to be in the mount hardware and especialy the heat sheild configuration and not in any text?

I personaly don't care if the car gets locking or non-locking mounts and to make it all easier I could just replace them with the "original" non-locking ones. However, if these mounts were in fact on this car when it was new on the dealer lot in 1969 then I want the locking style to remain with it.

Come to think of it....Bloomington judges to the standard of how it rolled off the assembly line but NCRS judges to how it would have appeared on the dealers lot or showroom floor. That being said and with all the talk about engine mount re-calls back then, the dealer could have installed the newer 70 style before it left the lot just to be safe. Depending on how long the car sat on the lot this alone should allow me the full points...correct? The way the heat shield is modified though, I don't think it was done in any garage...looks like it was manufactured that way to fit the locking style mounts.

What are your thoughts on what I should do, locking or non-locking and what kind of a point hit should I expect if I can't convince a Judge that the locking ones are original?

Thanks,

Greg

[Terry M.]

Re: Judging view on 1969 engine mounts.....

Greg,
If you are convinced the locking style is original to your car -- restore the car with that style but be prepared to take the deduction for that non-typical factory production. NCRS does not tell people to restore their car to the way the judging manual says -- rather we tell people to restore their car to what they believe, after due diligence, is original. The judging manual attempts to describe TYPICAL factory production -- deviations do exist, and they receive deductions for being non-typical. BTW: I suggest you do not raise the issue of motor mounts during judging. They are hard to see on a C3 big block, and you might be surprised how often you will receive full credit.
If you think the mounts were replaced at the dealer, put what you think are the original style back in. NOTE: This is the same advice as above -- put in the style you think are original.
NCRS judges to the standard of NORMAL dealer new car prep. I doubt you could convince anyone changing the engine mounts is part of normal dealer new car prep.
I don't have a current 1968-72 set of judging forms, so I don't know what the points assignment is for the motor mounts, but I believe it is on the same line as the engine ground lead. Being as there are three items there -- two mounts and a ground lead -- if the ground lead is present, you will receive some originality points. That should allow a condition assessment, rather than a full deduction. My guess is that all these words are not worth more than three or four points. It will be interesting to see how close I am if there is someone with a recent score sheet.

[Mark #28455]

Feb 1969 had non-locking

When my brother and I pulled the engine out of our late Feb 1969 L89 with 43000 miles 22 years ago, I remember I was shocked because both motor mounts fell apart as the engine was lifted. I was surprised by how junky the mounts were and that we had not damaged anything as the engine was essentially sitting there on its own. It is certainly possible that the prior owners may have swapped the mounts, but as the original owner liked to autocross the car, I can't imagine he swapped in a set of the non-locking mounts. Who knows?
Mark

[William C.]

Re: Feb 1969 had non-locking

I have a bunch of Tech bulletins but not many after '68, so I can't do the research for you but if I were CONVINCED that what you are saying is correct, I would look in two places, first I would look at the assembly manual for a part number change to the mount. This would be a clear indication of a change or at least the intent to make a change during the model year. Secondly, I would look for someone who has a stack of Dealership Technical bulletins from the 1969 MY to see if a change is mentioned there. This was a recall item, but the recall consisted of adding a restraining strap the the engine on the drivers side, NOT replacing the mount, but knowing exactly when the recall was announced might give you a clue as to the era of the production change. I personally can't remember if it was '68. '69', or'70, but there were several part number changes in the early 60's also (parts group .027).

[Reba Whittington]

Re: Judging view on 1969 engine mounts.....

YOu are correct, Terry, the engine mounts and ground strap are a line item worth 5 pts. originality and 5 for condition.

[Greg L.]

Re: Feb 1969 had non-locking

Thanks so much for all of your thoughts and advice on this one.

Right now I'm leaning towards my "incorrect locking" ones as being original to my car. Other that the fact that they were not typical factory production, everything else points to them as being original. The physical evidence with the "non typical" heat shield, inconsistencies between the 68 and 69 AIM in this area(when there really shouldn't be one) and after conversing with a very highly respected contributor to this forum, I'm thinking that my best case scenario is I loose a few points and worse case is that I replace them and then realize that I made a mistake.

Thanks again,

Greg