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Re: Poly top battery deduction
Doesn't Restoration Battery have a tar top with the gel cell inside? I just purchased gel cell reproductions from Restoration Battery for our '69 Z28 and '65 HIPO Mustang. This option avoids the risks you mention - admittedly at a high cost.
As for the NCRS advocating "safety" - I suspect that is a "can of worms" and becomes a very slippery slope. Where do you draw the line in encouraging safety (new products) over originality (Factory Correct)? -
Re: Poly top battery deduction
NCRS does honor safety aspects of SOME things... There's an exclusion for deduction(s) on the presense of seat belts on cars not originally equipped with them as well as burgular alarms. BUT, the Flight Judging process is a form of factory concours. That means the process is aimed at evaluating cars as they left the factory and were delivered to the original owner with then current dealer prep, absent any owner/dealer inspired changes.
So, the fact that a reproduction battery with poly vs. tar top is detectable as a difference from the car's factory original configuration shouldn't be a point deduction 'surprise'. The safety 'improvement' (hydrogen gas discharge) is a stretch in my opinion. Millions of these cars were delivered and operated without incident using vented cells!
There's highly explosive gasoline in the tank that routes past a hot engine. Should be also not deduct for obvious changes in the car's configuration for safety improvements in that area too? Gosh, the fiberglass body components are flammable, maybe we should encourage stamped steel replacement panels...
Of course these thoughts are ridiculous and the line needs to drawn somewhere. Eight judging points out of 4500 possible is a whooping 1/10th of a percentage point....Comment
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Re: Poly top battery deduction
Jack,
When you are dealing with single point deductions on the various aspects of the car 8 pts. seems high for the difference that I mentioned when the repro tar top receives 0 pts.
Dave K.Comment
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Re: Poly top battery deduction
I heard some say at the Boston regional that those who lost points on friday for the gel type batteries got the points back on saturday. In other words- no peeking in the fill caps.Comment
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Re: Poly top battery deduction
I would hope so! The goal is APPEARANCE.Comment
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No removing of caps
A few moths ago I heard from a knowledgable master judge that no longer would judges be allowed to take off the battery caps to see if there was liquid inside. I think this is indeed the NCRS policy, but it appears not all judges have heard of this policy change.
GaryComment
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Re: Poly top battery deduction
David, I believe my car was one of the few cars at the Marlborough regional with a tar top battery. A mechanical judge glanced at it and said to the other one-just write down minus 8. I said hold the phone-battery the "real deal". My poor tar top had about a dozen plus finger nail impressions in it cause guys kept coming over and testing it out. Reason for no deducts Dave is that it meets all the critieria for originality plus it was properly dated, etc. The new repros only appear to be identical but are far from it. I mean you can spot them from 10 ft. Glossy top and fake caps. I understand from a solid axle team leader that they are only taking off 7 points and giving the car owner the benefit of the doubt. But the later boys are taking off 8 points. This item extensively covered in our deduction tables. Our friend Barry and I were talking about Batteries yesterday for our toys. If you run a brand new Delco from local auto parts store you loose 12 points. If you run your style-plastic top-8 points. So only 4 points between the two. I have had my tar top for 15-20 years sitting in a box and it just got acid for the first time about one month ago. If you find an old tar top our ex Pres of the chapter can get it rebuilt for you. Good for judging but otherwise the current repro with sealed top and fake caps the only way to go. I bought one for a back up in case tar top pooped out in Boston. But it seems to work just fine. But you have to worry about all the acid and crap with the old tar tops. One owner said he had a lot of damage to his 63 cause his tartop bubbled over and made a mess. There is another scam going on. Scam a bad word. Guy's are taking the fake tar tops-grinding off about 1/4" of plastic and filling them up with tar. I saw one and it looks very nice. If you want to know more call me. JohnComment
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Re: Poly top battery deduction
Hi All
I have read all the responses about these batterys and no one has come up with the right answer for the point reduction. These battery tops are " TAR TOPS mixed with POLY". When I have my 66 judged I will make an issue of this through the proper channels for no more than 4 points.Comment
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Re: Poly top battery deduction
Jim,
I totally agree with you. John DeGregory made the point about a Delco service replacement battery getting dinged for 50% and the poly top, that to me, looks a lot more like the real thing getting dinged 30%. I think that the judges are only rationalizing the use of "standard deductions"! I agree that 4 (20%) points is more reasonable considering all factors and I will back your position.
Let me know what happens.
Regards,
Dave K.Comment
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Jim L.: Poly top battery deduction
Jim,
Can you lay out to us the argument you're going to use to gets the judges to switch from a 8 point deduction to a 4 point? If it works, I'll use it as well. But if there is a standard deduction table for batteries, I don't see how any argument will work until it agrees with the table.
Thanks,
GaryComment
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Re: Poly top battery deduction
David, At a recent national board meeting I understand that this battery subject was extensively covered. This info came to me from a team leader-not in my class. Deductions are made according to the standard deduction table. If you want a real tar top for your '66 see the fellow whose trailer your used. This way you will get all the credit instead of losing 8 points.Hurry because he wants to put the battery on ebay. Get the battery stamped with date and manufacturing plant letter code. Our friend can do this for you. Or buy a plastic tar top and have it modified. As far as getting a 4 point deduct on a plastic one- good luck. You will need it. Sometimes you have to forget all this chatter and just consult your team leader. After all he is the boss-not us. Or forget all the above and go out and buy a new Delco and take a 12 point hit. Make it up somewhere else. Problem is you can only lose 135 points (97%) to proceed to a Duntov (after PV).JohnComment
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Re: Jim L.: Poly top battery deduction
Hi All
Now that I have opened my mouth prematurly I have learned that the new d
ry cell batterys may have further ramifications for judging. If you observe the corners of the case the sides of the box are glued together. This is a dead giveaway that it ia a dry cell battery even though it is not a requirement to remove the caps. The original acid batterys were made from a solid box with no seams. I heard that at Boston some other years were losing all points from this observation and there were some high level discussions about battery points. I obtained this limited info from a reliable source and will wait to see what developes.
I started today to try to get written info about the Poly&Tar top from the manufacturer however I dropped the idea when I learned about the seamed case. I will purchase a real repro tar top for PV if that is what it takes even though I am still an advocate of the dry cell battery. I have one in my 57 Oldsmobile that was well received at the 05 Oldsmobile nationals. I guess we will have to see what develops for now.
JimComment
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