more 65 396 questions

[Chris Hewitt #33486]

OK, so the mint Nassau Blue coupe I'm looking to buy flunked the broach mark inspection. Obvious restamp as fonts were wrong and there were vertical (decking) machining marks on the pad.

The block casting part number is for the 65 396 with a 3/65 cast date and 6/22 engine build date. I know 396s were used in other Chevys, did they have different block part numbers? Could this motor have come from a sedan?

The car is otherwise perfect(mint frame, no hit body with excellent paint, original side pipes, original teakwood. mint interior), won a regional Top Flight in 1985, and flies like a bat out of hell.

Are engine pad machine marks a big deal? Am I being too hung up on the pad appearance. I mean, for all I know it's the damn original motor that was rebuilt and decked at one point and someone didn't bother to put broach marks back on or use the correct fonts when restamping!

My goal with this car is weekend show and shines of which it has won many, cruise nights, go to NCRS shows and not get laughed out of the joint, correctness which it seems to have and to maybe 5 years down the road get my money back at $39k. The NCRS/Bloomington judge that looked at it today thought the car would do well in flight judging, but would take a big hit on the engine pad.

Thanks for all replies.

[Bill Clupper]

Re: more 65 396 questions

There is no "magic" to a Corvette non-original engine vs a "Corvette" non-original engine per se, the question you now have to deal with is the one of "is it a four bolt engine?" The engines carried the same casting numbers for Corvette and Pass car, also Pass car ran a number of 325hp two bolt versions. The difference is the on the driver's side above the oil filter canister, the two bolt engines have one hole tapped for the oil pressure fitting. The 4-bolt engine has a second larger hole tapped and plugged, to provide easy access for adding an oil cooler. A block as early as 3/65 would also hove a pronounced pair of ribs running from the intake manifold front flange to the top of the cam timing chain flange area. Finally, at this point, since the engine is not original per what you've learned, you really have to review all the aspects of the car to verify it's origins. Is the trim tag original, or is the color under the scuffs the original color? For $40K, you can afford to take your time.

[Wayne M.]

Re: more 65 396 questions

Chris --- What is your VIN ? Here's one example close to your engine assembly date: T0623IF, block cast F95, from car # 21604. Noland shows a C 27 5 cast (assembled July 12) on car # 22509, and it's rare, but these late cars could be all over the place. However, I would EXPECT a block cast in the May/early June period. How about the other cast component dates ?

In 1965 model year, the 3855962 block was also used in Chev passenger (425hp = IE code) and a handfull of Chevelle Z16 cars (= IX code).

It's your decision; maybe you are a little hung up on the engine pad (because NCRS is also). I would be more concerned if all OTHER engine component dates don't correspond with the VIN lead timeframe. Maybe in the years to come, judging weight will be revised so as not to suffer such a "big hit", and you'll be well in the money.

[Jeff]

At least make sure it's an original BB car...

..since the motor is not original your first question should now be was it a 396 car or not?

If it was a 396, I wouldn't be too worried about the OM if you get it at the right price and personally, unlike most folks, I'd rather have a no-hit body and mint frame than the actual original engine (if I had to choose, fortunately I don't). You can find and hit (if you care to) a correct block a lot easier than straightening out a shabby body or rusted, pitted frame, especially for a diver.

JP

[Robert C.]

Re: more 65 396 questions

The answer to your question about judging broach/pad stamping etc. Cylinder cases are all judged the same way.# 1.the first thing that is looked at is for a normally configured casting number and case. If incorrect it gets a 350 point deduction and the casting date and the stamp pad are not judged. #2. If #1 is correct the casting date is judged for configuration and correctness(within 6 mo.s of the cars build date. If incorrect 175 points are deducted and the stamp pad is not judged. #3. If #1 and #2 are correct you judge the engine plant stamp, the engine assembly date, alpha prefix, suffix, and serial number. Each of these groups has a 25 point value or deduction as long as #4 is successfully judged. #4. The absence of paint, rust,grease etc. which obscures the pad.The presence of normal factory production machine marks. If either is judged negatively then deduct 38 points. You can still recieve a top flight award and have a blank, smooth pad. Sounds like a nice car at a good price.


Texas Chapter NCRS

[Wayne M.]

Re: more 65 396 questions

So Bob; if his (original) block is just an old (=bad) deck job and (identifiable) restamp, the so-called "big hit" is not so bad after all. Thanks for explaining engine numbers judging sequence / weight process in such a clear manner.

[Chris Hewitt #33486]

Re: more 65 396 questions

Thanks everyone, I feel better now.

One thing for sure we determined yesterday is that the car started life as a Nassau Blue, side pipe, 396 car. That was my biggest fear; that it started life as a differnt colored small block.

Looked at the pictures I took of the motor and there is the rib going from the front flange of the intake to the timing cover, few! I also remember the 1 inch pipe fitting above the oil filter. So best case is original motor with bad retamp or a correct NOM.

Seeing how the resto was in 1983 my judge friend said that back then no one cared about the appearance of the pad, only that the numbers matched and that's what could have happened here.

[Joe L.]

Re: At least make sure it's an original BB car...

Chris and Jeff------

I agree wholeheartedly. In an old Corvette, a no-hit body, sound frame, and unrusted "birdcage" are, BY FAR, the most important considerations. In my opinion, EVERTHING ELSE is secondary in importance.

[Dan 80]

Re: more 65 396 questions

"Seeing how the resto was in 1983 my judge friend said that back then no one cared about the appearance of the pad, only that the numbers matched"

This may have been the view of some, but not all that many. Even back in 1983.