C3 water pump bolts

[Tory S.]

What is the bolt finish of the water pump bolts on '75 with AC - zinc, black oxide or painted? My original '75 has lock washers on all surfaces where the head comes into contact with a bracket and does not have a washer where the head comes into contact with the pump casing. Is this correct?

[Jack H.]

Re: C3 water pump bolts

Water pump was installed when the engine was painted, so the exact native finish of the attaching bolts isn't significant when it comes to judging as what shows will be painted...

[Harmon C.]

Re: C3 water pump bolts

Tory

On a engine with A/C I need to check when the bracket was added for the A/C but their should be no paint on the black bracket and the bolts need to be longer so I would say they could be be black if they go through the bracket. On your original 75 are the LH side painted and the ones through the A/C bracket on the R/H side natural?

Lyle

[John H.]

Re: C3 water pump bolts

Tory -

I'm not a C3 guy, but water pump bolts should be painted orange, with no lockwashers. However, where a water pump bolt is also used to attach an option bracket (like an alternator adjusting brace, etc.), they normally used a lockwasher; sometimes the painted engine plant-installed water pump bolt was re-used, and sometimes a fresh bolt was used after removing the painted engine plant bolt. If the illustration in the assembly manual calls out a part number for that bolt, it's unpainted; if there's no part number callout for that bolt, they re-used the painted one that came from the engine plant.

[Chuck S.]

Re: C3 water pump bolts

To find out if a bolt was reused or not, is the AIM.

Check the AIM option section under C60, N40, etc., to find the page where the option bracket installation is shown. If the bolt has no part number listed on the page, and an indicator with a diagonal line through it, half colored, then the engine bolt is reused and should be painted engine orange...If not, then try to determine the original finish from the bolt; if there isn't enough finish remaining to make a determination then you have to research.

On the engine, black is likely to mean black oxide; if rusty, then natural; if zinc, then you'll probably find some remnant of the plating.

[Tory S.]

Re: C3 water pump bolts

This is very interesting. I'm the original owner of this '75 and it still has the original water pump! Car has only about 38k miles. As I undersdtand, when the engine was painted, the water pump was installed and so was the AIR pump bracket. There must have been a spacer between the air pump bracket and the block on non-AC cars. For AC cars the spacer was removed and the painted bolt was reused?

My top RH bolt appears to be black oxide with some faint orange paint and goes through the air pump bracket (orange) to AC bracket (black)and has a lock washer under the head. There is no orange overspray on the AC bracket.

The bottom RH bolt is longer and black oxide. It goes through the bottom hole of the AC bracket and has a lock washer too. This would have been a non-painted replacement bolt?

The top LH fastner is a silver stud that attaches the black alternator adjuster bracket (no orange overspray) next to the orange pump, then a lock washer under the hex stud center, then the black air pump bracket in front of the hex stud, no lock washer, just a possibly silver nut.

The bottom LH bolt attaches nothing but the pump, but has lock washer. It appears black with the slightest amount of orange still on this bolt and lock washer!!!

Should I restore the motor like above and get questioned, or simply make my car match the judging manual?

Thanks.

[Chuck S.]

Re: C3 water pump bolts

My restoration approach in order of preference would be:

(1) If I KNEW it came from the factory that way, I would put it back like it was. Be careful now...don't forget water pump replacement, pulley work or belt changes by others. If you did ALL the work on the car, and you KNOW you put it back like was, then go for it. It will only be a symbolic gesture if you have it judged and it's not according to the JG...it will STILL cost you judging points. Being the original owner may cause some judges to listen to you, but no guarantees...you'll probably be docked anyway.

(2) If there are only a few areas where I had questions about how the car should be assembled, I would study and take pictures of those details on Bow Tie cars displayed at regional or the national convention. These are good restoration references, and that's why the Bow Tie program exists. Again, if the JG doesn't reflect what is shown on Bow Tie cars, you will probably lose points.

(3) If I didn't have the opportunity to see original cars before restoration, I would restore it to the AIM. This is the way they were TOLD to build the car, but it's a fact...sometimes KNOWN ORIGINAL cars are different from the AIM. You know what's coming...if the JG doesn't reflect what the AIM shows, you will lose points.

(4) The final refuge of spineless restorers looking only for judging points (Originality be danged; don't care as long as I get that Top Flight! )...Restore it exactly as the JG says; Do it perfectly and you will get ALL the judging points.

[Brian G.]

Re: C3 water pump bolts

On our non-AC `75 there does appear to be a 1/2" orange spacer behind the bracket. Original pump,45K miles.

[Harmon C.]

Re: C3 water pump bolts

Troy
Their is a good chance at some point I will get a chance to judge your engine. The bolt that goes through the A/C bracket on the bottom needs to be longer so it should be black oxide-natural no paint. The top bolt would still be orange as the spacer was removed and the bracket took its place. On the left side the bottom bolt is painted and the top stud I would say is natural
cad. I would restore the car as you stated it is which I think is correct. I will get out my judging manual and see what guidlines it says I should follow.
I also have a 75 so I can take a look at it also.
Good luck with your resoration and hope to have the pleasure of seeing your 75 at a regional.

Lyle

[Tory S.]

Re: C3 water pump bolts

Lyle & Brian

It seems we're getting to an agreement on which bolts were painted and which were not. Now, how about the lock washers. I have them in all corners, except LH bottom. My understanding is there are no lock washers when the bolt head touches the pump casing. When the bolt attatched a bracket - AC, alternator, there is a lock washer. Right??