67: A. O. Smith vs. St. Louis body differences - NCRS Discussion Boards

67: A. O. Smith vs. St. Louis body differences

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  • Barbara S.
    Very Frequent User
    • April 30, 1981
    • 599

    67: A. O. Smith vs. St. Louis body differences

    I'd appreciate anyone's thoughtful input on the following questions I have following my judging experience (a good one) at Albuquerque last weekend. My questions stem from wondering whether there are differences between how the A. O. Smith bodies were built (mine is an A.O.S.) vs. St. Louis bodies. Here goes:

    1. Hood weatherstrip push-in rivets. On page 127 of the judging guide, it states that, "Inside each end of the weatherstrip, there is a black push-in rivet inserted into a hole drilled in the hood."

    When I carefully disassembled my survivor 67, I removed the original weatherstripping from my hood. I carefully removed the old glue and I reached the original fiberglass. Nowhere on my original hood was there a hole at each terminal end of the weatherstrip to accomodate a push-in rivet. I've talked to a few other A.O.S. body owners who reported the same thing. The JG calls for the drilled holes and the rivets. It seems to me, and I would suggest to the board, that in '67, A.O.S. did not drilled holes for and did not use push-in rivets. Whereas, St. Louis did. Therefore, the JG (as it relates to these black push-in rivets) only applies to St. Louis cars and not A.O.S. cars. Input would be appreciated on this query.

    2. Hood pins. I was also told that hood pins were on the hood during the hood blackout process, and that the blackout operator placed a cup over the pin/spring assembly. During the blackout phase, a portion of the base of the male pin assembly received some blackout paint. However, on my A.O.S. car, when I removed and examined my original male hood pins, there was no evidence of any blackout on the base portion of the hood pins.

    Did A.O.S. install the male hood pins before or after hood blackout? If they were installed before hood blackout, was there blackout paint on the base of the hood pins?

    3. Female door latches. I have also been told that the female door latches were mounted on the door jam before painting. Although they were covered with some sort of a boot or cover, did the latch base (closest to the jam) receive some paint overspray on the door latch? Mine didn't have any paint on the female latches when I removed them from the car. For A.O.S. cars in 67, were the female door latches installed before or after body paint? If they were installed before, should they have some overspray on them?

    This may be winded, but I would appreciate any help out there.

    Best regards,
    Tony
  • Art A.
    Expired
    • June 30, 1984
    • 834

    #2
    Re: 67: A. O. Smith vs. St. Louis body differences

    Tony, First of all I assume you are talking about weatherstrip-hood PN# 3823433.I can't say for sure that this will answer your # 1 question, but I just looked in my copy of the Dow Smith AIM,aka AOS,(this AIM was unique to D.S.)and there is not any drilled holes or rivets called for, for the assembly of the weatherstrip-hood process. Nor are their any rivets called out in their Bill of Materials (which is included in their AIMs)for this operation.

    I can't address the painting questions.

    Art

    STA. NO. 8
    NUMBER 75405
    PAGE 380-0 AND 381-0

    Comment

    • Barbara S.
      Very Frequent User
      • April 30, 1981
      • 599

      #3
      Re: 67: A. O. Smith vs. St. Louis body differences

      Art. Interesting post. That helps confirm my theory that Dow Smith didn't use push-in rivets in the hood weatherstrip for 67. I've never run across a D.S. assembly manual. How can I get a copy of a Dow Smith A.I.M for my 67?

      Thanks again for your post.
      Tony

      Comment

      • Gene M.
        Extremely Frequent Poster
        • April 1, 1985
        • 4232

        #4
        Re: 67: A. O. Smith vs. St. Louis body differences

        Tony,
        I done a few AO Smith cars and share the following.

        1. The hood w/s was never found by me to have rivets in the ends pushed into holes as the NCRS manual states. Also there were no holes in the hood to support this on the AO Smith cars I was involved with.
        2.The hood pins on the AO Smith cars were free of any paint on the pins and springs but looked to have some minimunal black paint coverage on the sheet metal stamping with the threaded nut. Could this be from previous owners?...
        I oversprayed my 67 silver coupe to support the NCRS judging to avoid deductions. But can not confirm one way or the other......cop out
        3.The door catches on the door jam as well as the mechanism on the door showed signs of body paint and primer. More body baint. Now I'm talking about only original paint cars observations that were not repainted. Observations were only on 3 original paint AO Smith cars and they were all coupes.

        Comment

        • Art A.
          Expired
          • June 30, 1984
          • 834

          #5
          Re: 67: A. O. Smith vs. St. Louis body differences

          And you probably won't. To my knowledge, it has never been reproduced and marketed. I think I have one of the very few copies to survive. It is about twice the size of the Chevrolet AIMs and is not organized the same. One of the reasons it is so much bigger is that it includes the Bill Of Material, which is a separate page for each process. This is similar to the listing of part numbers on the Chevrolet AIMs, but more detailed.
          It is very hard to find a given subject in it and what I usually have to do is thumb thru it until I find what I'm looking for.There was not one for each model year, as we are familiar with, but is titled 63-66.

          Art

          Comment

          • John H.
            Beyond Control Poster
            • December 1, 1997
            • 16513

            #6
            Re: 67: A. O. Smith vs. St. Louis body differences

            My June-built AOS '67 didn't have the hood w/s pins either, but I added them. I suspect they were installed on St. Louis cars on a Local Deviation basis, as they don't show in the Chevrolet A.I.M. either (UPC 11/13, sheet B6).

            Comment

            • Art A.
              Expired
              • June 30, 1984
              • 834

              #7
              Re: 67: A. O. Smith vs. St. Louis body differences

              I would agree John, but a Local Deviation usually was issued as a fill-in type measure, and was followed up by an Engineering Change Request (ECR) which put the change into the official records. I could see a Deviation lasting for a MY, or part of a MY, but not from 1963-1967 as the AOS AIM indicates.

              Art

              Comment

              • John H.
                Beyond Control Poster
                • December 1, 1997
                • 16513

                #8
                Re: 67: A. O. Smith vs. St. Louis body differences

                Art -

                '67 is the only model year the JG calls out for the pins in the end of the hood weatherstrip, so it might have been a St. Louis Local Deviation for part of the model year that never got followed-up by the release engineer through an ECR and Graphics action to revise the A.I.M. sheet, and a notice to A.O. Smith to incorporate it as well.

                Nope, I ain't gonna remove my pins and fill the holes!

                Comment

                • Barbara S.
                  Very Frequent User
                  • April 30, 1981
                  • 599

                  #9
                  Re: 67: A. O. Smith vs. St. Louis body differences

                  ...and I'm not going to drill any holes now either!

                  Tony

                  Comment

                  • Joe R.
                    Extremely Frequent Poster
                    • March 1, 2002
                    • 1356

                    #10
                    Re: 67: A. O. Smith vs. St. Louis body differences

                    My April 67 AO Smith car did not have the holes drilled for the weatherstrip push pins. I drilled the holes and added the pins to satisfy the judges (and to help retain the weatherstrip), but it was clear that no pins had been installed at the factory.

                    I am certain that this hood is a GM hood and not a reproduction, so unless this hood was a service replacement installed by a previous owner, it would appear that AO Smith did not install the push pins.

                    Comment

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