$$MONEY$$ and Chapter Judging

[Joe C.]

How do we verify the quality of judging at (certain) chapter meets? Is there an unwritten rule that allows judges to close their eyes to big bucks "anomalies" at the chapter level? Have Midyear Corvettes become so valuable, that the NCRS as an organization has become bastardized? Is it possible that specific characteristics are seen "through a foggy lens" at (certain) chapter meets, and then, when the very same judges evaluate the very same car at a regional meet, the lenses now become clear?

I have a 1985 Corvette with a 98.9% Top Flight at Kissimmee, and a PV at Marlborough last month. A "shoo-in" for the McLellan award next July. After what I saw recently, I need some clarification, before I resign from the NCRS.

Joe

[Dave K.]

Re: $$MONEY$$ and Chapter Judging

Joe,

Please be more specific. I have a mid year roadster that scored 98.9 at two chapter meets (master judges involved) and am planning to take it to a regional in the Spring. You now have me very nervous as to what to expect.

Dave K.

[Edward M.]

Re: $$MONEY$$ and Chapter Judging

Would you care to enlighten us on "what you saw recently"?

[Tom R.]

Re: $$MONEY$$ and Chapter Judging

You may not get the clarification you seek on the basis of the vagueness with which you posted so you may wish to ready your letter of resignation. I agree with others...be specific.

I do believe in terms of the matrix system taught by NCRS, C3 and C4 judges are better equipped to be consistent without the cloak of "correctness" that infects mid-year judges. And frankly...that is purely my opinion without any basis for comparison of the two sets of judges. I don't judge C2s...just listen to war stories. But I'm sure they are there just as I suspect your suggesting.

And you'll have to explain the $ angle cause I dont'get it!

[Joe C.]

The Post Was Meant To Elicit Confidential Response *NM*

[Gary C.]

Re: Chapter Meet Judging

Can't speak for all the NCRS Chapters. The Texas Chapter and other Chapter Flight Judging meets I've been to were conducted with the same NCRS standards as Regionals and Nationals. However, in some Chapters, there may not be alot of Master Judges available. Also, Novice Judges may be teamed up with a Master Judge. Whereas, at a Regional and National Flight Judging meets, both Judges are normally Master level Judges and the novices perform OJ functions.

Not sure where you were going. Suggest you participate in running a Chapter Judging event or volunteer for an position in a Chapter.

Gary
....

[Roy B.]

Re: The Post Was Meant To Elicit Confidential Resp

Confidential Hay man! take the hits like I do out in the open or join a 51 Ford club.

[Jack H.]

Re: The Post Was Meant To Elicit Confidential Resp

The governing rules are the same for all levels of judging at NCRS. What will differ from Chapter to Regional to National meets is the experience profile of the judges that turn out to get the job done. In general, you should expect the judges with more experience to be more abundant in availability at the higher level meets. BUT, that's not universally true...

There are a reasonable number of chapters that have a pretty high concentration ratio of senior/master level judges. Then, there are chapters (like Australia) who've only been in existance for a short period and don't have the 'time in grade' to have bootstrapped their experience profile.

Last, it's also an issue of who turns out on a given day/weekend... The meet judging chairman has to use the manpower available to get the job done.

[Chuck S.]

Not New News...

Judging gets more difficult at each level, but the regional judging is closer to the national convention in difficulty, than the chapter meet judging is to the regional.

It's just like going from high school to college, and then to graduate school...You might have been a pretty big frog in your small pond (Smallville High), but when you get to the lake (State U.), you are just a big frog among bigger frogs, big snakes, and gators. That's just the way life is...you're always swimmin' with bigger gators if you are progressing.

The reasons have already been given...more competent judges, team leaders are at regionals to supervise, and I think an understanding: You might have been given a pass on a bunch of things that weren't "quite just right" at the chapter level in order to have that warm feeling of NCRS accomplishment, but when you take your car to a regional, then you're announcing you think you're ready for some judging. In my opinion, you should expect your score to drop unless you have a really excellent car.

At least that's what I have been told, and it's always been that way in my experience. There is no conspiracy involved, so "don' write that leh-ta".

[Michael H.]

All The More Reason Why The.........

...judging guides have to be as accurate as possible. The results of the judging is only as good as the information in the manual.

[Dave K.]

Re: All The More Reason Why The.........

Actually Michael if you go to the Regionals and the National you will see the high point Mater Judges judging outside of the manual. Many have personal notes put together from years of experience and even templates to check part shapes and contours. As I keep hearing -- the Judging Manual is only a guide.

Dave K.

[Michael H.]

Re: All The More Reason Why The.........

Yes, I've heard that this was the way the judging was conducted at the most recent event. There were several posts here on this board last week about the judging. Seemed as though people were satisfied with the results.

[Dave K.]

Re: All The More Reason Why The.........

I have no complaints whatsoever about our judging. I'm a 75 point judge myself and have judged chapter meets, regionals and OJ'd at nationals. You will probalby never get everything into the JM although the C1 and C2 JMs are the best in my mind due to the years of experience that have gone into them.

By the way -- an email to Joe didn't result in a satsifactory explanation.

Dave K.

[Dale S.]

Re: All The More Reason Why The.........

I would think all parties would be talking om the phone. With the number of of vulture lawyers advertising on TV (and in DC). I would not use names either. Dale

[Charles P.]

Re: All The More Reason Why The.........

If you think that chapter meet judging is the same as a regional meet than I have a 1983 Vette to sell you.