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Hello folks. Just bought a new clutch kit from paragon for my 1965 L/79. New fork, correct clutch rod with 2 anti rattle springs. With the adjustment all the out, I cant put the car in gear with motor running. Seems like I need more clutch adjustment. Has anyone else run into this problem? Is there a different or longer clutch rod that can be used ? Any advise would surely be appreciated.
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Re: 1965 corvette clutch adjustment
Harry,
This is a very common problem for anyone that owns a 64 or 65 if the clutch release lever is being replaced. The original 64-65 lever was discontinued decades ago and replaced with the 66-67 style lever that is shaped slightly different. The problem is, the guys that rewrite the new parts books never bothered to mention that when using the newer style lever, you must also use the 66-67 style adjustment rod, which is longer than the 64-65 rod. ( I THINK the part number is 3888213 and I THINK it's still available) If you're looking for dead on accurate, you would have to reinstall the original lever. If you're not planning on showing the car, I would just replace the rod.
All of this assumes that you have all of the other correct components, such as the release bearing and ball stud, and that the bearing is installed correctly on the release lever.
You're not the first person that has run into this and you definitely won't be the last.
John Hinckley posted some great drawings a while back of the correct and incorrect way to install the bearing. If I can find these drawings, I'll repost them. -
Re: 1965 corvette clutch adjustment
Just used one of the 66 rods on my 65 and that was the fix. Got one from LIC. Cut some of the extra threads off. Looks stock.Comment
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Re: 1965 corvette clutch adjustment
Fellows, thanks for both of your responses but I'm still confused. Did 66 and 67 have a different small block clutch rod than 64 and 65 because the big block rod is different where it connects to the clutch fork correct? Also, can you tell me how much longer the rod you used VS the stock rod.Comment
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Re: 1965 corvette clutch adjustment
Harry,
The lower rod that runs from the cross shaft to the release lever (fork) was the same for all 64-66 small blocks. (at least that's the way it is in the parts book) It's length is 10 9/16". In early 66, most of the linkage components changed and there has been mass confusion ever since.
I'm on my way out the door in a few minutes but when I return this evening, I'll post with all the gory details and part numbers/descriptions. VERY confusing. The errors in the parts books make it even worse.Comment
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Re: 1965 corvette clutch adjustment
The '63-'65 pedal pushrod (#3819154, 18" overall) must be used with the 10-9/16" lower fork pushrod (#3844209). The '66-'67 pedal pushrod (#3888213, 19-1/4" overall) must be used with the 8-9/16" lower fork pushrod (#3872960).Comment
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Re: 1965 corvette clutch adjustment
John,
That's part of it but that doesn't explain why Harry's clutch adjustment went wacko when he replaced the release lever in his 65. He already has the longest lower rod, the 3844209, and he needs one even longer to get the upper swivel back up on the threaded portion of the upper rod. The parts books make it look easy but it doesn't explain that these items have to be installed as a package. Long story......
The lever (cross shaft) is different also.Comment
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Re: 1965 corvette clutch adjustment
Harry-----
The small block and big block fork pushrods were not different, at all, where they connect to the fork. The clutch actuation system was different for 65-66 big blocks versus small blocks, but it was not different in this regard.
To sort this thing out, we need some further information from you:
1) Is the clutch cross shaft ("Z-bar") original to the car (as far as you know; i.e. have you changed it?);
2) What is the end-to-end length of the CLUTCH FORK PUSHROD that you removed from the car?
3) What is the end-to-end length of the CLUTCH FORK PUSHROD that you got from Paragon?
4) What is the end-to-end length of the CLUTCH PEDAL PUSHROD that you have installed on the car?
With this information we should be able to sort it out for you.In Appreciation of John HinckleyComment
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Re: 1965 corvette clutch adjustment
Hello Joe. The car is original, has the original Z-bar etc. The clutch rod from Zbar to fork with the 2 small holes for anti rattle springs that I bought from paragon is 10 9/16 long. The clutch adjusting rod from pedal to Zbar is 18" long.Comment
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Re: 1965 corvette clutch adjustment
Harry------
In that case, you have all of the correct, original-configuration parts as your car was originally manufactured.
A few questions, though:
1) is the clutch fork pushrod that you got from Paragon the same length as the one that you removed from the car?
2) are you sure that the clutch release bearing is the correct length? It should have been 1-1/4" long. If you can't check that now, are there any markings on the box that it was packaged in?In Appreciation of John HinckleyComment
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Addendum
Harry------
One more thing: compare the replacement FORK that you received from Paragon to the original FORK that you removed from the car. I realize that it may be difficult or impossible to compare them in a comprehensive way since you have the new one installed in the car. However compare them as best you can from the external portion of the fork.
Also, if you can, post or e-mail me pictures of the removed fork. Front, rear and side views would be nice.In Appreciation of John HinckleyComment
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Re: 1965 corvette clutch adjustment
Harry,
Sorry it took so long to get back to you. If you just want to drive the car and are not concerned about absolute correct original appearance on the clutch linkage, then I suggest you purchase the clutch pedal to cross shaft rod, part #3888213. It will function properly and look somewhat correct for your 65.
If, on the other hand, you want the car to be correct/original right down to these clutch linkage components and you know that the pressure plate and throwout bearing are correct, then I'm afraid you will wind up removing the transmission again to replace the throwout lever.
If you purchased a new release fork (within the last 39 years), it's likely the wrong one for your car. The correct original fork, part number 38444493, was discontinued by GM in Feb of 1967. It was replaced with the 2nd design 66 and later lever, part number 3887177 and that's the one that I'm sure you have. The problem with this part, as you have learned, is the fact that it's shape is slightly different than the original 3844493 fork, which changes the clutch adjustment by just about the exact amount that you mentioned.
When GM changed this fork on early 66 cars, they also added other new parts to correct the change in dimension. One such part was the 3888213 rod. That's the one that connects the clutch pedal to the lever (Z bar).
For some unknown reason, GM never mentioned this bit of information in the parts book when the new 3887177 replaced the 3844493. There should have been a note in the parts book. (3887177 fork to be used with 3888213 rod) Also, the lever assembly, part number 3832857, that was used for 63-65 and 1st design 66, was different than the 3888279 that was used for 2nd design 66 and later.
If we rely on deductive reasoning, we have to conclude that; Your car had all of it's original linkage components. The clutch functioned properly with these components. The adjustment was reasonably correct with these components. The problem with the adjustment began when the clutch, T.O. bearing and fork were replaced. No other components were replaced. The T.O lever is incorrect.
Here's the break down on the parts and the different numbers between 64-65 and 66.
3844493 0.795 Fork, clutch release 64 65 and 1st design 66....3844493
3887177 " " Fork, clutch release 2nd design 66..............3887177
3832857 0.852 Lever, cross shaft (Z bar) 64-66 1st w/327......3832857
3888279 " " Lever, " " " " " " 66 2nd design w/327... 3888279
3872962 " " Lever, " " " " " " 66 2nd desigh w/427....3872962
3844209 0.787 Rod, lever to fork 64-66 w/327 10 9/16".........3844209
3872960 " " Rod, " " " " " 65-66 with 396-427...........3872960
When you look at the numbers, it becomes obvious that there are basically two groups. One for 64-65 (3844xxx) and another for 66 (3888xxx) It would seem reasonable that these were all designed for use on the same model year/engine. We know that numbers in the 388xxxx range were introduced some time in the very early part of the 66 MY and possibly at SOP.
Numbers in the 386xxxx to 387xxxx range, such as the 3872960 rod, are typically released in the beginning/early part of the 65 MY.
As previously mentioned, I would just buy a new 3888213 lever assy. Hope I haven't confused everyone.Comment
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Re: 1965 corvette clutch adjustment
Hey Guys, thanks so much for all your help, the 66/67 Clutch rod from pedal to bell crank (Z-Bar) at 19-1/4" was the cure. Theres also plenty of adjustment left.You people make the hobby alot of fun and thats what its all about. Thanks again. HarryComment
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