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Caswell Copy Cad FYI...

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  • Greg L.
    Extremely Frequent Poster
    • March 1, 2006
    • 2291

    Caswell Copy Cad FYI...

    Well round three of my plating ordeal worked as expected. I borrowed a 3amp power supply from work and got the same results as my ebay one so that ruled out my power supply as the problem. I even managed to plate my fuel pump as per Jerry's recommendations and it turned out okay but due to the size of it, it was a long drawn out process. This is it at 3amp after 45 minutes and note that there are no bubbles at all as compared to his pic of the "same" pump a month or so ago.


    I had to really wire brush and polish it but after the chromate dip it turned out like this.


    I still thought something was wrong so I contacted Caswell's tech line and they told me to post on thier forum so I did. This the link to my question and answers.

    In the end I had someone PM me the following letter because they didn't want to upset Caswell. Bottom line is that thier manual for the old formula is WAY out of whack!!!

    I hope all the links and info that I post in this one "little" post will be quite helpfull to anyone that wants to try home plating with the Caswell kit. As Tim Allen says...."more power"!!!

    Now the letter.

    "Hi Greg:

    (me)It's funny...I had the feeling that we had to be politicaly correct on the forum and that some things had to be held back or risk having a post pulled.

    (him)Yep. Caswell will not tolerate harsh criticism, or anything they deem "inappropriate" by their own definition.

    I've had 3 of my postings deleted simply because of the detailed information I provided, apparently because Caswell just didn't want people to know it!

    (me)Here is a vacuum relay that I plated today.


    (him)Wow! That turned out REAL nice! 3 amps sounds too high for 15", but it worked. You should be able to do up to 40-45 " w/ 3 amps, but you'll need more anode.

    Anyway, here's the story of how I came to the 80-100 mA/sq-in current:

    The plating manuals (old 2002 manual) power requirements for the original formula are way out of whack!

    When I first started out w/the kit, I was getting terrible results, and going round and round w/Caswell tech support got me no where. So I went out on the web to try and figure it out for myself.

    Found the "Electroplating 101" forum, so joined up and posted my problem there. Got 3 responses that said 25 mA was not enough, use 100 mA/sq-in".

    So I did, and it worked!

    Ran a bunch of experiments at different current densities, with and w/out brightener, and posted the results:




    I got back in touch w/Caswell tech support and showed them. Told them their manual must be wrong. We had 3-4 more correspondences, and they must have contacted the manufacturer, since they sent me this quote:

    "I sent this problem to our supplier of the formula we use, and here is what he said:

    Voltage has nothing to do with successful plating. The amperes are what count. The parts should have a current density of 15 - 25 amperes per square foot. Your customer states the part is 12 square inches. That is .08 square feet. Multiply that by 20 amperes per square feet and you get 1.6 amperes. He needs somewhere between 0.8 - 2.0 amps( 800 - 2,000 ma), the higher end is better."

    So here it was, straight from the horses mouth! Look at the manufacturers numbers and do the math:

    "15-25 amperes per square foot" --> comes out to 104 to 174 mA/sq-in !! more than 4 times what the manual says!

    Even the manufacturer was inconsistent though, at the end they said:

    "12 sq-in ... between 800 - 2,000 ma, the higher end is better." --> that's 67 to 167 mA/sq-in!

    Note the low end is precisely what the Caswell power brick was giving me, but it wasn't quite good enough.

    That's when I realized that my experimental results were right-on, and the Caswell manual was totally wrong. 50Ma isn't enough, but 75 was fine! So I've been using even higher, as the manufacturer recommends, and it comes out good every time!

    I do not understand why Caswell continues to use the wrong numbers though. THEY sent ME the right information straight from the manufacturer! I think that's why they've introduced the "New" formula, w/the correct numbers. Notice that the "New" kit no longer comes with a power brick? It was just to damned difficult to get all the variables just right.

    If you need more anodes, you can get pure zinc much cheaper than buying from Caswell.

    Zinc etching plates:
    They are thicker than Caswells, so harder to cut & bend, but volume-wise, they are only 1/8 the cost, and surface area-wise, only 1/6 the cost. I bought 2 of the 9x12 plates for the same price as 1 of Caswells 8x4 sheets!

    You can also get thinner zinc in rolls from Home Depot. It's used as an anti-moss strip under roofing flashing! Very easy to work with, and also a lot cheaper. 2 3/4" wide x 50 ft for $29.

    anonymous"

    Greg Linton
    #45455
    Attached Files
  • Gerard F.
    Extremely Frequent Poster
    • June 30, 2004
    • 3803

    #2
    Re: Caswell Copy Cad FYI...

    Greg,

    I'm getting an education from your posts and experiments. Great work.

    Incidentally, another member of this forum got those 2 16v-10a Kikusui's which is probably one more then one needs for 3 gallon plating. Don't want to put him on the spot, maybe he'll contact you.

    Jerry Fuccillo
    #42179
    Jerry Fuccillo
    1967 327/300 Convertible since 1968

    Comment

    • John M.
      Expired
      • January 1, 1999
      • 1553

      #3
      Re: Caswell Copy Cad FYI...

      Greg,

      I have always used 3-4 times the reccomended current, and have always gotten excellent results. At about 6-8 times the reccomended current, you will start to run into blistering problems. I will plate a couple of bolts at 1/2 amp, and that is about as low as my current setting ever gets. His current numbers have always been off, but for some reason he still sings the same old song!
      As you start to turn the current up, you can see the shadow on the parts start to dissapear, and with a little brightner and some agitation, you can get parts that are almost shiney enough to see yourself in!

      Regards, John McGraw

      Comment

      • Chuck S.
        Expired
        • April 1, 1992
        • 4668

        #4
        Re: Caswell Copy Cad FYI...

        Yeah, nice work, Greg. It needs to documented for easy future reference. You should consider writing a Restorer article.

        Comment

        • Greg L.
          Extremely Frequent Poster
          • March 1, 2006
          • 2291

          #5
          Re: Caswell Copy Cad FYI...

          Well thanks guys.

          I thought that what I have learned in the past little while from you guys, Caswell and the person that wrote me that letter should be put out there for all to learn from because to be honest I initialy wasn't too impressed with my kit. The kit however is a really good investment and if used properly, OEM finishes are quite easy to do. I don't know why Caswell didn't correct the mistakes in the manual because they knew and still know that the current numbers are way off. Maybe the new formula will have a new manual with correct numbers. They actually shot themselves in the foot with their low figures because based on them I should be able to plate a wiper door actuator with a 3amp power supply so that is what I was looking for at the start. When their web site showed that they were sold out of 3 & 5 amp ones I bought one off of ebay. Had I known that I needed 4-5 times that amount I would have bought one of their larger ones because they had those in stock at the time...oh well...

          As far as an article for the Restorer...well Chuck...I hope I will soon be able to because I would like to, but for now I have this big 3D puzzle that I'm working on that I need to finish asap...see what I mean!


          Lots of work but still having fun.

          Greg Linton
          #45455
          Attached Files

          Comment

          • Chuck S.
            Expired
            • April 1, 1992
            • 4668

            #6
            Well Whadda' Ya Know...

            I have a bedroom that looks ALMOST identical to that one! Whoo'da thunk it! Greg, we have got to get new decorators.

            Comment

            • Gerard F.
              Extremely Frequent Poster
              • June 30, 2004
              • 3803

              #7
              Geez, and my wife gives me heck

              about leaving stuff around my shop. You're my hero Greg.

              Good Luck on your project, looks like you have plenty to do.

              Jerry Fuccillo
              #42179
              Jerry Fuccillo
              1967 327/300 Convertible since 1968

              Comment

              • don22567

                #8
                Re: Caswell Copy Cad FYI...

                Greg, I just purchased Caswell's 3 amp rectifier and cad plating kit. Was I wrong in buying the 3 amp rectifier. I mostly want to plate nuts and bolts but what if I want to do something bigger? thanks, Don.

                Comment

                • Gerard F.
                  Extremely Frequent Poster
                  • June 30, 2004
                  • 3803

                  #9
                  Re: Caswell Copy Cad FYI...

                  Don,

                  From what I have learned above, you may have trouble doing bright plating on parts with over 30" in surface area. Parts over 30" will still plate, but more slowly and come out dull and require post finishing. You can always do a portion of a part, and then the other portion.

                  Jerry Fuccillo
                  #42179
                  Jerry Fuccillo
                  1967 327/300 Convertible since 1968

                  Comment

                  • Greg L.
                    Extremely Frequent Poster
                    • March 1, 2006
                    • 2291

                    #10
                    Re: Caswell Copy Cad FYI...

                    Don

                    What Jerry says is correct. From what I have seen with the original solution, a 3 amp power supply will JUST be able to plate ONE of the expansion tank straps(about 15-20 sq") and even at that it will need a very small amount of buffing to bring out the shine on some of it. You can plate larger items but they will need buffing to make them shinny. Plating a portion at a time does work but I find it quite time consuming as when I did the wiper motor housing. For a few pieces of hardware at a time the 3 amp one will work just fine but as you get better you might want to do more or larger items as well and that will require a larger power supply. However if you now have the newer improved solution you will have a much harder time plating hardware as the newer solution takes alot more current than the original one. Do you know if you have the newer or older solution?

                    Check out this link: http://www.hogheaven.com/hobby/plati...-II/index.html

                    If I knew then what I know now, I would have picked up a 10 amp power supply as a minimum. Check ebay or Caswell for at least a 10 amp depending on what the largest item is that you will want to plate. I can't stress this enough though...you can always turn your power supply down but you can't always turn it up!

                    Greg Linton
                    #45455

                    Comment

                    • Gerard F.
                      Extremely Frequent Poster
                      • June 30, 2004
                      • 3803

                      #11
                      Don't throw away the old solution

                      You can use it with Real Cad, once it is worn out with zinc. But then you can't use it to go back to zinc.

                      Jewrry Fuccillo
                      #42179
                      Jerry Fuccillo
                      1967 327/300 Convertible since 1968

                      Comment

                      • don22567

                        #12
                        Re: Caswell Copy Cad FYI...

                        Thanks Greg and Gerard! I just received my package from Caswell 2 days ago and haven't even opened it up yet. I think I'm going to call them today and see if I can't return the 3 amp and buy the 10 amp. I know that I'll probably wind up buying the 10 amp down the road anyway based on the information I have learned from both of you. Thanks again. Don.

                        Comment

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