63-65 FI air meter adapter screws

[John D.]

Had my 63 judged at Marlborough and got dinged because my fuel injection air meter adapeter screws were tooo long. Got dinged on other items on the car but knew about most of them before hand and they were typical stuff we all know.
But only got upset about the deduct of these screws. For a long time I have heard complains from car owners that they got a deduct on these screws. Let me tell you what info I have on them from Rochester Products. They are a 10-32 by 5/8" long screw. Phillips screwdriver pan head. Readily available today except some of them don't have enough "meat on the head. But I am not concerned about the head with this post. What I want to stress is that the screws are 5/8" long from the factory.(cad or zinc) Sure they are ugly in that too much thread sticks out. But they are original. If you want easy documentation without going crazy look in the old parts book in the illustrated green pages and the length of the screws and others is right before your eyes. It is upsetting that these midyears are getting a point deduct because the screws are too long. The judging manual is incorrect. Problem is over the years guys see a lot of repro screws in these cars made my someone else that are only 1/2" long and after seeing them for so long think they are the real deal. Don't want to mix NCRS with business and try hard not to do so but guys quit deducting for these long screws. If you think I am incorrect that prove it with documentation. I would really appreciate that and so would the car owners. Thanks, John

[Gary C.]

Re: 63-65 FI air meter adapter screws

John,

Judging Manuals can be changed/supplemented with documentation of the correct parts (screws in this case) to the 63-4 Team Leader. Case in point; the 56-7 Judges Manual previously stated that all '56's had hydralic cams. We reviewed the P&A Manuals and determined that statement wasn't true and the Judges Manual was corrected.

Send your documentation to Carlton and that should start the change process.

Regards,

Gary
....

[Michael H.]

Re: 63-65 FI air meter adapter screws

John,

The screw that you are refering to was changed during the 63 MY run. The part number changed as I remember. I think the original was longer than the screw that replaced it some time mid production. I'll look into this and get back to ya.

Also, I'm not convinced these were all cad or zinc plated.

[Michael H.]

Re: 63-65 FI air meter adapter screws

John,

Found the part numbers and the date of change on the screws. Originally, it was a 160052. It then changed to a 942056 on AIM date 12 Feb 1963. I haven't been able to find the dimensions, yet, but I bellieve the original screw was longer than the later replacement. I know the screws always looked as though they were too long. Here's a pic of a near new 63 that's in the 3000 to 4000 VIN range. The screws do indeed show excessive length. (how about those BLACK L/washers on the AM studs)

[Michael H.]

Re: 63-65 FI air meter adapter screws

John, you are absolutely correct. Here's another pic of the same car. It clearly shows the extra length of the screws. This pic is in the Noland Adams book. Guessing, I would say the screws on this 3000 to 4000 VIN range car are at least 5/8", and possibly even longer.

How bout that silver throttle return spring and the little WIRE gizadoo that holds the vacuum advance tube to the plenum cover bolt? Both are dead on correct for cars at least to this 3000-4000 VIN range.

[John D.]

Re: 63-65 FI air meter adapter screws

Michael, Thanks for the nice pic of the air meter. I appreciate your effort especially in these times that I told you about. Anyhow "how about the black washer". As I stated before Rochester Products used various washer finishes in the mid years especially. I just didn't start making screw kits on the blind. First I bought from others for many years. Screws never fit,etc. Then I had a friend at RP, Frank Sciabica who got me the info on screw sizes and finishes. Then others at GM helped also. One thing I always remember is the RP was very flexible with the washers. They used anything basically. You guys know all the possible coatings. Didn't matter. My NOS 63 unit has shiny screws with rusty washers. Maybe they were bare but I bet they were blackened. Most of the air meter washers I see are cad or zinc Michael. But I know you get off on the odd stuff and that is one of the reasons we like you so much. Anyone can say oh they are all zincad. (JL term) But it takes a researcher like you to point out otherwise. Serrated washers versus smooth washers is another subject for sure. All types were used. But we like to make stuff pretty (although not original) and tend to stick to some form of consistency. Thanks, John

[John D.]

Re: 63-65 FI air meter adapter screws

Mikey, Thanks again for pointing out that the screws are really long ones. 10-32x 5/8". CC pointed out to me at Marlborough the heads of the old original AC adapter screws were typically thicker than the ones you buy today. I agree with him on that. He didn't say my screws were too long at all. That was someone else's opinion. But I don't blame the judge as this is happening often over the country. I hear it all the time. Guess when it happened to my own car and guys made fun of me ( no you say) it hurt a little. Dings don't matter. It's the principle. So if you can continue you research to later midyear FI's that would be most appreciated. Your friend, John RJ-step in at any time

[Michael H.]

Re: 63-65 FI air meter adapter screws

JL didn't invent the word zincad. That was invented right down here in the swamp by Jorjorian and I a few months ago. Think I still have the emails in my deleted folder.

[G B.]

My favorite weird FI fittings

5. '63 blackened main diaphragm brass tee (pretty common).

4. '65 blackened main diaphragm 90 degree skinny brass elbow (pretty rare).

3. '63 - '64 shiny brass power brake vacuum tall fitting (pretty rare).

2. '63 blackened 90 degree brass elbow on top of air meter (pretty common).

1. '64 - '65 vacuum fitting (in right rear side of plenum for distributor advance) with a shiny brass hex body and a cad plated, threaded brass hose nozzle (very rare).

I've only encountered two sets of original blackened lock washers on air meter studs. One was on a 7375, the other was on a 7375R. My own 7375 unit came out of the original owner's basement with dull silver colored lock washers on the air meter.

[Gary C.]

Dings can be appealed to the Team Leader

John, you could have appealed the ding for too long of screws to CC and if he concurred would overrule the Judges. Again, documentation will get the Judging Manual changed. Regards, Gary....

[Michael H.]

Re: My favorite weird FI fittings

Yes, I've had a few of #1, the unplated brass vac adv fitting on 380 units. One of my 64 cars, the 4100 unrestored original, had an unplated dull fitting. No plating on the small tube either.

Still have a few of #2, the black fitting on the air meter but definitely have pic's of brand new cars with zincad on that fitting.

Agree on #3 also, the power brake fitting. Seen both plated and natural brass.

Totally disagree with you and JD on the zincad air meter lock washers though. I don't know that I've ever seen one that I thought was original without black lock washers. Maybe some pilot or very early units but even my "school unit" had black washers. This was one of the items that I recorded starting in the very early 70's. I knew that 62 and earlier used zincad washers for this but not 63-65, at least not consistantly. I probably have well over 150 pictures of unrestored cars starting in the early 70's and no originals had zincad.

[Alan Drake]

Re: Black Washers and others

Jerry,

Just looked over two FI units, one original on car other a 63 unit purchased sometime in early 70's.

63 unit 375 serial #3548 has 4 Black lock washers on air meter. the screws for the air meter measure 7/8" from doghouse to end of screw.

64 unit 380 serial #1813 has 4 Black lock washers on air meter. The screws show 1/8" past the nuts. The power brake vacuum fitting is brass and measures 1" from doghouse to top of fitting (no idication of any zinc platting). The right angle fitting at dia back to air meter is zinc (brass under). front fitting for oil is brass now however the threads show remains of zinc platting and the 63 fitting has mostly zinc left.

Just what's on my two units

[Michael H.]

Re: 63-65 FI air meter adapter screws

Here's another from a Hot Rod magazine from May 1963. Has the black L/washers under the air meter nuts.

Even pilot line 63's had the black L/washers.

And yet another car with silver throttle return spring and wire vacuum advance tube retainer. See, I'm not imagining things.

Lot of these zincad washers come from FI rebuilders from the 70's and 80's. I rememmber conversations with a few of these people about the washer/screw color and the reply was.. "I replace all the screws and washers with these". (zincad)

Silver vacuum advance line fitting too. Lot to be learned from old photos of new cars.

[Tracy C.]

Dig those chrome plated cowl vent grills.. *NM*

[Alan Drake]

Re: Vac Advance Clip, 63 FI

Michael,
My 63 unit still has the Vac Advance clip under the doghouse screw if you need a picture let me known. Also have a wobble fuel pump, but plenty of pictures of that around.