RR front control arm bushings...C2

[Jim V.]

After reading the archives on the subject I still have a few ???.

1. I thought heating any suspension part was NOT recommended (Dick W). Several posters recommend a torch (mapp gas) to burn out the rubber of the bushing first and then after removing the shaft drive the bushing shell out. Heat?

2. If I use a 1 1/8 hole saw to drill out the rubber bushing, how do I then drive the bushing shell out? From either direction or does that matter?

3. Greg L. shows some nifty use of a ball joint press (large C clamp) to press in the new bushings. Does this jeopardize bending/collapsing the control arm ears?

4. Are all the "correct" control arm bushings made by the same manufacturer and where is the best source?

5. Lastly, any recommendations on sourcing and installing the ball joints?

6. Anybody recommend Vansteel or others to do the whole job?

Thanks...

[William C.]

Re: RR front control arm bushings...C2

I use Bair's in Linesville PA, they have quick turnaround and do a LOT of them.

[Wayne C.]

Re: RR front control arm bushings...C2

I've done it with the #1 approach (burned out the bushings) years ago, and it worked, but I can't really recommend it. You need to take the A-arm out of the car first, of course. The time I did it, I was only replacing the top bushings so I compressed the spring, unbolted the upper pivot pin, and unfolded the A-arm & kingpin assembly out to clear the car. It is a very messy job, as hot rubber spits & sputters out for a long time, and the neigbors really won't appreciate the smell or smoke. You keep burning the rubber until there's just about nothing left except a charred coating, then scrape that out. If you get the melted rubber on anything, it'll never clean off. Cleanup of the A-arm is another tough task.

To keep from bending the A-arm while installing the new bushings, you need special tools, which are possible to make, like a steel tube cut in half lengthwise to the exact length between the flat parts of the ears (and with a relief for the pivot pin bolt-down tabs) then positioned & clamped to prevent the A-arm ears from collapsing towards each other while you press the new bushings in from both sides.

It's a lot easier to have a machine shop do the work, one that has the specialized tools. More expensive, but much easier.

[Joe L.]

Re: RR front control arm bushings...C2

Jim-----

It's not really all that difficult to R&R the bushings. However, everything considered, your best bet is probably to have it done by a shop like Bairs, Van Steel, or Carter's Corvette.

There is a reproduction ball joint on the market now that is "close" to the originals. By now, I would think that many of the Corvette parts suppliers would have them. "America's Finest Corvettes" in Ramona, CA was among the first. If you want them riveted the only sources I know of are Bairs, Van Steel and Joe Lucia (but Joe Lucia only does them for Joe Lucia; NO exceptions).

[Jim V.]

Joe...

I have used Bairs on my last car. If feasible, I enjoy doing my own work however. Can you tell me what your technique is for R&R?

Also, what is the difference between replacement ball joints and the more correct available alternative (Finest..) I know the difference in bushings.

Thanks again Joe!

JimV

[Joe L.]

Re: Joe...

Jim------

Briefly, I remove the old bushings using a technique I learned from a "master". This involves the use of an air chisel. Use the air chisel to seperate the flange of the bushing from the arm and then rotate the chisel to drive the bushing out. Done correctly, you can remove all 8 bushings in about 10 minutes with no damge, at all, to the arms. It takes a certain amount of "technique", though, and the chisel has to be sharp.

To re-install new bushings I use original GM/Kent Moore tools to avoid damaging the a-arms in conjunction with an hydraulic press. You can't buy the GM tools anymore, but a usable set can be fabricated.

Original ball joints have a captured style seal and an unthreaded extension on the end of the ball stud threads. Replacement type ball joints have a seperate seal and no extension on the ball stud threads. The configuration of the stamped steel component of the upper ball joints and the body of the lower ball joints is also different on the originals versus replacements.

I think that the reproduction ball joints cost somewhere in the vicinity of $100 to $150 each. Replacment ball joints can be purchased for $25-40/each.

[Gary B.]

Repro ball joints

America's Finest Corvette (AFC) lists a price of $75 per ball joint or $275 for a set of four. I agree with Joe that these repros are close cosmetically to the GM originals, but there are detectable, albeit minor, differences between the two. There used to be a decent photo of the repro ball joints in a Driveline ad, but I'm not sure if it's in recent issues or not. There are no photos, close-up or otherwise, on the AFC's website.

Gary

[Chuck R.]

Re: RR front control arm bushings...C2

Hi Jim,

First off I ground off the flare so that I could pop the washer out of the way

The I removed the rubber bushing by running a 1/4" dril bit in and out moving around the the entire radius of the bushing until the sleeve and the remaining bushing could easily be pushed/pryed out.

Then it was a matter of caving the outter sleeve inward with either a chisel or in my case an air chisel.

It was super easy. Re-installing is another matter.

Regards,

Chuck

[Jim V.]

Re: Repro ball joints

The AFC is hardly worth the price if they are still detectable as other available replacements. Is the LICS replacement significantly more detectable? I think they are $25 or so. I suspect the point or two hit is NOT worth the $200 difference in price.

[Gary B.]

Repro ball joints

Jim,

If LIC is selling ball joints for $25 each, you can bet they are not the same as the new repros that AFC is selling. LIC may simply be selling whatever jobber ball joints are available from Moog or some other manufacturer and, yes, those balls joint are not nearly as close to the orginal design as the AFC ones are.

Gary

[Joe L.]

Re: Repro ball joints

Jim-----

I expect that the Long Island offering is just an aftermarket-type replacement ball joint. Until the reproductions came on the market about a year ago, the only options were an aftermarket replacement type piece or NOS. Now, there are 3 choices. From a points perspective, I don't think it's worth the extra cost for the reproductions and certainly not the cost of NOS (which can be in the range of $600-1000 for a car set).

[Robert Jorjorian]

Re: Repro ball joints

Joe I wastold the repo are imported. Do you know from which country if that is true? Thanks

[Jim V.]

Three choices..being

Are the three choices in ascending cost order:
1. MOOG type aftermarket available at FAPS...etc
2. AFC reproductions
3. NOS...

Are all aftermarket (MOOG...etc) the same?

Can any of the above be riveting or used with the "fake" rivet? And...once an upper control arm has been drilled for a replacement ball joint using bolts, is it then NOT usable for a rivet in ball joint due to the oversize holes?

It is only a two point hit for bolt in replacement ball joints...correct?

Thanks

[Joe L.]

Re: Repro ball joints

Bob------

The reproductions are imported from the "far east". However, I don't know which country. I'd say that there's probably about a 99% chance that it's one of 2 countries----Taiwan or China.

[Joe L.]

Re: Three choices..being

Jim-----

Yes, those are the 3 options I was referring to.

Not all aftermarket ball joints are Moog. Moog (Federal-Mogul) is at the higher end of the aftermarket "ball joint spectrum". There are all sorts of different brands out there and, surprisingly, it's not just a case of the same product packaged in different boxes. Some of the parts are real "el-cheapo" foreign-manufactured pieces.

The "imitation rivet" can be used with any of the ball joints. It's easily detectable from the bottom, though.

It does not matter if the upper arms are drilled for the 5/16" bolts. There is no way that I know of to obtain an upper ball joint with the PRODUCTION-type 9/32" holes in them, anyway. I don't think that even the "reproductions" have this feature. NOS GM upper ball joints certainly did not; they had the 11/32" holes for 5/16" bolts.

One can use 5/16" rivets for the upper ball joints and if one carefully trims the heads, they can be made to look original after they are set. You can't trim too much off the heads, though. FUNCTIONALITY is still the most imporatant criteria here.

I don't know anything about point deductions. I would presume it to be small, though.