Ethanol

[Mark J.]

This week I bought a new Chevy truck that boasts of the E85 flex fuel option. In doing some research on ethanol, I ran accross the attached brochure on the use of ethanol in automotive engines (slow-loading pdf). The brochure states that the auto manufacturers have approved the use of ethanol since 1982.

This all begs the question of how an 85% mixture of ethanol to gasoline will effect the performance, wear, and emissions of the pre-1982 Corvettes. Personally, I am hoping to reduce the foul-smelling emission from my '66 when I park it in the garage.

Any thoughts?

MRJ




Ethanol

[Joe C.]

Re: Ethanol

Mark,

After scanning the article, I think that as long as ethanol is not confused with methanol, then the alcohol blend should have more benefits than liabilities. It burns cleaner, and so leaves fewer deposits in the engine. Most notably absent, are sulfides, which form acids when combined with moisture.
My guess is that 1982 was a breakthrough year for allowing alcohol based fuels, because motor oil packages may have been upgraded that year to be compatible with alcohol. I can't think of any other reason why alcohol would not work for pre 1982 engines. In fact, the benefit of alcohol, is that it has a comparable octane rating of 111!
There is one question that I do have..........I'll have to look it up, or perhaps someone else here will. That is, how does the heating value (energy content) of gasoline compare to that of ethanol?

Joe

[Mike G.]

Just a Test NM *NM*

[Joe C.]

Oh, I Forgot

I love the smell of exhaust fumes in the garage. It reminds me of the smell of napalm in the morning.

[Michael W.]

Re: Ethanol

Your Corvette will not run on E85, please don't try it. A major engine conversion would be required. E85 is 85% ethanol, not the same as the 10% ethanol fuel that's more commonly available .

I've noticed no difference when switching back and forth from 'normal' gasoline to 10% ethanol.

[William C.]

Re: Ethanol

Yes, E-85 requires a COMPLETE upgrade of every non-metallic component in the fuel system. Anything over 15% reguires an upgrade, which is why 10% mixtures have been readily available for years. The early GM "flex fuel" sustems upgraded not only the fuel system, but also added a sensor to detect the actual % of ethanol in the mix to calibrate the fuel flow more effectively. Also, Ethanol has only about 60% of the BTU capability per gallon as does a gallon of gasoline, so fuel economy will be reduced accordingly. Don't buy the BS being out out by politicians who haven't looked beyond Farmers votes, E-85 is a real loser for the consumer.

[Duke W.]

Re: Ethanol

As stated most OEMs have approved a blend of up to 10 percent ethanol and 90 percent gasoline since the early eighties. It was primarily an upgrade of fuel system elastomers that allowed the use of what was then called "gasohol". Most cars, even older carbureted cars will accept 10 percent ethanol without any signficant affects on performance or driveability.

E85 is 85 percent ethanol, 15 percent gasoline, and GM developed a "smart" fuel system that detects what percent ethanol is in the fuel, between zero and 85 percent (primarily via the O2 sensor), and adjusts the A/F ratio as required to maintain stoichiometry.

The greater the ethanol proportion, the more fuel must be added for each pound of air, so as ethanol concentration is increased, MPG goes down, and at current prices in most markets, fueling with E85 is more expensive than gasoline.

Using E85 in an older carbureted or EFI car will require major re-engineering of the fuel system to provide a proper A/F ratio and is not likely something that an amatuer can do properly.

Other than California, no '66 cars had exhaust emission controls, so you should always have a well ventilated space when working on an idling engine due to the high levels of HC and CO.

Duke

[Donald M.]

E85 IS DEATH .....

to your pre-1982 engine!!! That's all you have to know. If, like Brazil,the government requires all cars use alchohol fuels, we all may as well fill our Corvettes with dirt and plant tomatoes!
Don

[John H.]

Re: E85 IS DEATH .....

E85 is death to ANY car not indicated by the manufacturer as being "E85 Compatible", including a new car you might have bought yesterday; less than 5% of the vehicles sold today are E85-compatible - those that are, are so noted in the owner's manual and by a sticker either in the fuel filler opening or on the fuel tank cap. The entire fuel system, from the tank to the injectors, is unique, plus the in-line sensor that determines alcohol percentage and reports it real-time to the (also unique) ECM. Do NOT use E85 unless your vehicle is "E85-Compatible" - doing so could get VERY expensive.

[Jean C.]

Re: E85 IS DEATH .....

Do manufacturs equip E85 cars have a different size fuel filler neck inlets that only an E85 nozzle will fit, e.g., similar to the days of no-lead / leaded gasoline?
Best regards,
Charlie

[John H.]

Re: E85 IS DEATH .....

Charlie -

No, they don't. I don't think a "standard" has been developed yet that will mechanically differentiate between filler necks and dispensing nozzles for "gas only" and "E85-compatible" vehicles. Same issue exists with diesels - you see stories all the time about people filling their gasoline car with diesel fuel.

[Mark J.]

Re: E85 IS DEATH .....

My truck has a plastic yellow gas cap stamped "E85 / Gasoline". The filler looks the same as other cars.

[Terry M.]

Diesel nozzles

My former employer had diesel pumps with very large diameter dispensing nozzles that made it all but impossible to get the diesel nozzle into a gasoline filler opening. I haven't had a chance to use a civilian diesel dispenser, so I don't know if they are the same. Now one could easily put gasoline into a diesel tank, and I doubt the diesel engine would take too kindly to that.

[Jean C.]

Re: E85 IS DEATH .....

Gasoline in a diesel vehicle story....friend of mine bought a Jeep whatever with only 400 miles at auction recently, has a 4 cyl diesel. Original owner filled the tank with gasoline, likely the first fill up for the vehicle (old habits die hard). Insurance company totaled it and it went to auction. New owner drained the tank, filled it with gasoline, cranked it and it seems to run and perform fine.
Charlie

[Terry M.]

Re: E85 IS DEATH .....

"New owner drained the tank, filled it with gasoline, cranked it and it seems to run and perform fine."

You sure that is what you meant to say Charlie? I suspect he drained and refilled with diesel, but what do I know?