No Numbers on Original '67 427/435

[Rodney Armstrong]

My family owns a 1967 427/435 roadster that we bought in December 1967. The car was purchased with approx. 3500 miles on the odometer. The car was originally sold at Love Chevrolet in Columbia, SC around March 1967. The original owner traded the car back to the dealership for a station wagon. The second owner purchased the car from the dealership and after approx. two weeks sold it to a used car lot in Columbia. The used car lot only had the car for several days before they took it to an auction in SC. It never made it into the auction, it was sold in the parking lot to a local used car dealer in NC. As you can tell, I have talked to every owner including the used car lot owners and ex-employees of Love Chevrolet about the car's history. We purchased the car from the used car lot in NC. It now has 44K original miles on the odometer, but there are no numbers stamped on the engine pad. We have the majority of the documentation including..tank sticker, protect-o-plate, and the bill of sale from Love Chevrolet. The protect-o-plate has the engine suffix TO1212JEH stamped into it. How can we have an engine with an unstamped engine pad, when the engine suffix number is on the protect-o-plate? Our goal is to continue documenting the history of this corvette and to solve the mystery of missing numbers. We have written letters from every previous owner stating that the engine was never changed. I am sure that someone out there has had the same problem.

[grr]

Re: No Numbers on Original '67 427/435

Rod, you sure that protecto plate info is right. I have a 67 also, L-71, 435, my block is stamped TO101JE,the "TO" stands for Tonawanda, 01=day, 01=jan,JE= 435 hp w/iron heads. You say you read TO1212JEH, I'm confused. The last 2 confuses me. the JEH is even stranger, JE engines are 435hp w/cast iron heads,JH are 535hp w/aluminum heads. Also my vin number follows the larger outboard stamping on the pad. Maybe I'm confused and someone else with protecto plate experience can help you out. Your right side after valve cover should have a couple leters on a decal there, my read in black letters "JE",look on the block down by the dip stick penetration to the block for some casting ID marks. My engine is cast H56, H=aug,5=day6=1966, early production. Also look on the backside of the block where the bell housing attaches on the drivers side below the distibutor, my last 3 numbers end in 351, again early production hi-per 427. Also if you want pop the valve covers and read the dates cast on them.I don't have my original protecto plate so maybe someone else can straighten you out.Or maybe post 67 protecto plate need calrification help.Sorry and good luck,GRR#33570

[Joe L.]

Re: No Numbers on Original '67 427/435

Rodney------

This situation is extremely perplexing. As you know, there are two different stampings on the engine pad. One is applied at the engine plant, in this case Tonawanda, NY. This is the sequence that begins with the "T" and ends with the two alpha-character suffix code. In your case, this should be "JE" and not "JEH" which you indicate as showing on your Protect-o-Plate. Pre-1970 Corvettes did not use three alpha-character suffix codes.

In any event, the other stamping on the pad is the VIN-derivative which is applied at the St. Louis Corvette assembly plant. It would not be difficult to understand how, possibly, one of these stampings could have been missed. However, it is EXTREMELY difficult to understand how BOTH could have been omitted on the same engine.

Some information relative to this mystery might be found in the engine casting date which will be found on the bellhousing flange. If you can provide that and your car's assembly date from the trim tag, perhaps we can go from there.

[Wayne W.]

Re: No Numbers on Original '67 427/435

The H would stand for Holley equipped on the protector plate but it would not show up on the engine stamping.

[Dave - NCRS#24235]

Castng date on Original '67 427/435

If the 67 427 has the date in the same place as the 66 427, it is on the right (pass.) side of the block, obscured by the cast iron exhaust manifold (if any). - Dave

[Jeff]

I'd say it's a replacement block...

...and that you should start looking at it from that angle. Do a forensic inspection of your engine bay. It will be a lot easier to detect other signs of the block being out of the car since you have the car to look at than it will be to pick the memories of folks who, obviously, had very little contact with the car since you have owned it so long and all of them account for such a short period of its existence.

People forget what happened, people don't even know what happened, people assumed things did or didn't happen and people are even afraid of what might happen if they give the wrong answer.

Last month I went to look at a low mileage, unrestored C1 I have been trying to buy for several years. The original (80 year) old owner had told me repeatedly over the course of our negotiations that the convertible top had been replaced and that the rugs were the originals. When I got there, the top was original and the rugs had been replaced. After enough jogging of his memory, I saw a flash of recognition in his eyes, that he suddenly remembered that he had dropped the car off at the upholstery shop for new rugs, not a new top even though he still wouldn't admit it to me. I am sure he thought I would be mad at him for having flown half way across the country on his mistake.

When I restored my 67 there were no repro parts. At one time or another, I had purchased parts from nearly every 67 within a 100 miles of me to get the best original parts I could find. Sometimes I had to buy the car and resell it, sometimes the seller would just let me pay them to swap parts. I bought one car just to get it's correct 726 machined (not stamped) PCV valve and then resold it. I bought parts of others to get mint door panels or even just one piece of rug. My guess is that everyone who owns the cars I stripped is certain that even the parts I swapped are their originals. Lots of things can happen in a third of a century, especially, to performance cars.

When these cars were new lots of things happened to them and often they happened right away because of a steep learning curve. I have an excavator I bought new in 1989 and the only scratch in it is from the first day I ever used it.

Lots of 67 427s spun bearings. My, admittedly, fuzzy recollection was that it had something to do with the fuel cap allowing the contents of the carbs or tank to drain into the crankcase, diluting the oil. When that happened, it often happened upon starting so the owner could have dropped it off at the dealer for service and it spun when they went to drive it inside. If that happened to this car, the dealer may have replaced the block without the owner even knowing or he may have forgotten. The dealership mechanics may have taken the car out and hot-footed it and spun it up themselves or the reseller may have done the same thing. My guess is the reseller becuase if it was done at the dealership you'd, most likely, have a CE block, not a blank pad.

As others have said, get the casting number and casting date off the block and go from there. If they are later than the car, you know the answer. If not, then you have to look carefully at the entire engine compartment. Sure there have been production quirks, but nowhere near as many as folks would like to believe.

Of course if it does turn out to be real, I'll feel really stupid...

JP

[Chris H.]

Re: No Numbers on Original '67 427/435

Rodney, I have NEVER heard of an unstamped original motor. As others mentioned, get the casting date and go from there. Check for the forensic eveidence as others also mentioned. I love trying to solve these mysteries. The truth is out there.