C2 FI Doghouse has gas puddles??

[Alan Drake]

64 FI car with 380 unit, just removed the air meter and noticed the doghouse has puddles of gas inside. CONCERNED!

Over the past two weeks only started car and let it idle around 1200 to 1500 about 4X and moved over a bay and back - so no real driving.

Thanks Alan

[Mike McKown]

Maybe not a problem

You must know the plenum is not a wet part of the intake which is causing your concern. I don't know for a fact but if you've been idling the engine a lot, you may have fuel reversion which could blow fuel back into the plenum. Puddles? I don't know.

It could also be oil being sucked in by the PCV.

[John D.]

Re: C2 FI Doghouse has gas puddles??

Alan, Puddles of oil in the 7380 plenum possible. But puddles of gas highly unusual. Only gas connection is the fuel meter vent hole and it's so tiny I doubt that you would have that problem. You don't have a pcv so that's not it. You should have a restrictor fitting in front of the plenum. Then a hose going to the oil tube. I have seen oil get in the plenums that way. Make sure you do it fact have the correct restrictor fitting. Idling all day long would not cause puddles of gas though in the plenum. Rings not seating or blow by definitely will cause oil to go into the plenum. If the engine is idling rather smooth on all eight you can eliminate the theory of gas coming up the runners from the nozzles. Maybe someone else has a clue as to the gas. That's a new one. Now if the unit has been flooding I have seen gas go thru the chrome balance tube in front of the unit and get into the AC but don't think the gas would work it's way into the plenum. Guys take the units off and work on them and for some reason turn them upside down to do so. This would cause some gas in the plenum but not in your case. Sure it's not OIL. Pull your dipstick and smell it for gas fumes in case you are having a major problem with gas getting into the oil. If so don't run it any more for sure until the problem is solved or you could hydralic lock the engine or even worse. John

[Alan Drake]

Re: C2 FI Doghouse oil puddles

Yes oil not gas. Busy playing with air meter, however wiped the puddles and let site with dog cover open over night. Remaining puddle still there in morning and towel used to dry puddles has oil remains - so its oil.

Now for some added facts; The oil breather lines were removed in the late 60's. converted to road draft tube on back of block, front oil cap is an old breaher style and hose to doghouse is blocked. Inside of doghouse and back of throttle value are black. Pulled the #2 plug, black, but dry. Also noticed at times (first start idles) the right side exhaust does push a little smoke.

As soon as I confirm that the original air meter works and it will back to this problem.

Over the years the 64 air meter was replaced with a 63 (just plug the top fitting)
In fact an intake leak was the problem, however the 63 meter was on, it worked, so it stayed. Need to go back to original now. One little change brings out more work than planned, but that's a Corvette. I have taken pictures of inside of doghouse I anyone desires to see these send me your email address.

Thanks Alan

[John D.]

Re: C2 FI Doghouse oil puddles

Alan, A lot of the early 7380 units used the left over 63 air meters with a slotted plug in them. The plug is quite similar to the one on the back of the FI distributor. In the olden days judges used to deduct for those plugged air meters but most do not today. CC knows this detail quite well. But here is how to tell if your early 64 really has a genuine early air meter with a plug or just has a "completely" left over 63 air meter. Under the plug there is no vacuum hole drilled. The plug was purely cosmetic. But if it were in fact a 63 air meter it would have the hole drilled. I should go back and rewrite this thing but I think you get the drift. John

[Alan Drake]

Re: C2 FI Doghouse oil puddles

Thanks John,
The corvette world keeps coming up with more unique details.
The air meter I just put on was my original unit which I took off in the late 60's or early 70's when I was trying to determine why the car did not idle very well. Naturally everyone told me it was the FI and should just get a carb, however being obstinate I would not replace the FI until it was running right. Found that the intake was not squared with the heads, a little milling and all the problems went away. After that, way would I need a carb, so that stubbornness left me with the original FI unit still on the car, except that the 63 air meter was still on.

Just put original 64 air meter back and started up, adjusted idle - back to origninal unit now.

Any ideas on the oil in the doghouse?

[Mike McKown]

Re: C2 FI Doghouse oil puddles

Is the road draft tube still on it or did you go back to the air cleaner adaptor flame arrestor? How about the vacuum restrictor from the plenum to the oil fill tube? Is it opened up now?

You may have oil coming through some deteriorated valve stem seals and blowing back up the intake port during extended idle. Any damp oil or oil mist in the intake ports? If you milled the intake and nothing else had been machined, something doesn't sound quite right.

[Verne Frantz]

A different F.I. set-up

Has anyone ever seen one of these or can you recount how it performed?

[Michael H.]

Re: A different F.I. set-up

Verne,

The dual air meter system never worked very well. GM played with it but never was happy with the results. The whole idea was scrapped. Bill Thomas, the man that built the Cheetas in 1964, used dual air meters but they provided little HP gain at the very top of the RPM ramge and killed the mid range torque. Engines wouldn't idle under 1500 RPM and a correct fuel calibration curve was never established. Sure looked powerful though.

If I remember correctly, one or two of the Grand Sports had this setup for a short time?

[Alan Drake]

Mike - feedback on Milling

Hi Mike,
The oil system is still disconnected - road tube, ft line blocked, however just noticed the draft tube is out of block hole.

As I recall we measured the distance between the heads front and back and then the intake manifold, then milled the intake to make the distance the same at the front and back. (Not sure anymore what was off!) That fix however worked, the car idle was just fine and that bad FI was not at fault. Seems the FI was always getting blamed something back then.

The car has spent a lot of time sitting since 73, just on road for 2 years to get 1K more miles and now the past 3 years for a few 100 more miles. The valve stem seals, think they could have dried out. I will check for a runnner being wet, however did not notice any today when cover went back on.
Thanks

[Verne Frantz]

Re: A different F.I. set-up

I grabbed that from an old Bill Thomas catalog I have. He claimed a 40hp gain!!
It's obvious it wasn't intended for the street. Who cares what a race car idles at.

[Michael H.]

Re: A different F.I. set-up

Not likely a mfg of any speed equipment would ever claim no HP increase. Every part they sold added 40 HP. If ya bought 10 of their items, it was automatically 400 more HP.

Ralph Sallyer had one on his Cheetah in 64 and if I remembr correctly, he switched back to one air meter.

[Verne Frantz]

Re: A different F.I. set-up

Probably true Michael, but I still stand reverent to Bill Thomas' performance endeavours. It's a nice long history of winning combinations. He's on my hero list.

[Mike McKown]

Whatever happened to "Bad Bascom"?

The Chevy II Thomas built for road racing with the C-2 Powertrain/driveline in it?

One of the test mules wound up in England after being wrecked in it's last race there.

[Verne Frantz]

Re: Whatever happened to "Bad Bascom"?

Mike,
Bill Thomas' original Bad Bascom did get crate '61 F.I. motor, as well as an independent rear for awhile. He later replaced the engine with a '63 427 (Z-11), went to a dropped steel front axle and replaced the rear. Dick Harrell bought the car and continued to race it as the Retribution II. The car went through some body, color and moldings changes along the way. It's rumored that the car was destroyed in a crash in '65. A "tribute" car is being constructed now.
As for overseas racing, you might be thinking of the fastback conversions that were originally made for road racing, but most all of them wound up on the drag strip.
Verne