I know that this is a typical problem. I have a 66' 327 350HP. Starts great when cold. Once I drive for a 1/2 hour or so, stop for lunch, come out, start car, won't start. No click, no sound, no turning. headlights are fine, alt. gauge shows 1/2 when not tuning key, when trying to start, dips to the left. I used to be able to jump start it from another vehicle and it would start right up. Or I could let it sit for an hour or so and would start once cool. Now, if I try to jump start it, I get no click, nothing. I have a new battery/cables, new Delco rebuilt starter(staggered bolts)/selonoid(with original GM Heat shield), wire harness in good shape, clean connections. Timing is advanced as per service manual. The engine has about 1,300 miles since rebuild/with original high compression. Where do I start to eliminate the problem? Does it help using a 427 starter? Do I need starter shims and how do I know how to gauge how many shims to use? Thanks, Mike Nehra
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Re: Hot starter problem
Do you have a spare good battery you can switch for a week or just to experiment a process with for elemenation? Try it. If it still reacts the same it's in you starter. But don't over look that alternator, these older cars will give false readings and then your stuck out at the drag strip like me once unable to start your car. If you have access to a multimeter or have a place near you have the alternator checked you might be surprised. Then do the battery switch.But always do the obvious or easiest thing first. Changing the battery is easier than pulling the starter. grr#33570 -
Maybe you've gone metric
Michael -
I doubt shimming will help. Shimming eliminates interference of the starter drive (bendix) gear with the flywheel teeth. Your problem sounds like an overheated solenoid refusing to pull in its plunger and energize the starter.
I've noticed that Delco brand rebuilt starters now come with short, weak, Commie-metric solenoids. They are so small that a 1.5 inch long adapter is needed to reach the starter lugs. I've had one starting problem with them on a truck. (You're not running tubing headers, are you?)
You may want to try an old style (long) Standard Ignition brand solenoid and the weaker solenoid spring that GM sells over the counter. Using a larger American solenoid will require you to install a longer solenoid plunger. I would also make sure the positive battery cable is at least a 2 gauge wire. Some of the reproductions are made of 4 gauge. You're probably not using any funky type cable terminal at the battery, so I won't even ask about that.
I believe a '66 small block originally came with a 12.75" diameter flywheel. That flywheel uses a starter nose with both bolts parallel to each other. The starter noses with the staggered (off-set) bolts are for a 14" flywheel. Since your starter does work sometimes, you must already have the right starter nose for your flywheel.
I'm familiar with two sizes of coil windings/shoes in sixties GM starters. The larger, "high-torque" coils are longer. You can tell if your starter has them by seeing where the lugs come out of the housing. If the lugs are 3/4" away from the end of the (American) solenoid, then you have the stronger version. However, since you can't hear your drive gear jumping into the flywheel, I think your problem is confined to the solenoid.Comment
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Re: Hot starter problem
Mike, This problem has come up many times on this Discyssion Board and I think you will find some good answers in the archives. The general concensus seems to be that the starters are at fault and I seem to remember that Joe Lucia (who is a rgular contributor and well versed in these matters) posted the part number of a special spring for the solenoid that seemed to help cure the problem. It also should be in the archives. Assuming you have checked the battery, the starter is the next likely culprit to look at. Hope this helps you, KurtComment
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Re: Maybe you've gone metric
Thanks guys for the response. My battery is brand new. I am using the new metric style selonoid. I did read the archived article on the weaker spring. Wear can I buy the American type selonoid, and please expain further on the instalation of the the longer plunger and spring, as I have never done this. I will check the gauge of my new battery wires( original spring type repros). I am using a negative battery cuttoff switch/rotary style cuttoff knob. Am I a dummy for using this? Do you suggest an aftermartket sarter selonoid cover? The car does have sidepipes as well. Thanks again. Mike Nehra. Member NCRS.Comment
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Re: Maybe you've gone metric
Michael,
You just gave another clue! The cutoff switch could be the culprit. If it is not tightened fully, with clean contact surfaces, the required amps to turn a hot starter can't flow. Try taking it off to see if the problem goes away. All of the other suggestions are common but harder fixes.
Good Luck,Wild BillComment
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Re: Hot starter problem
Mike----
First thing, do as "Wild Bill" suggests and remove the battery cutoff switch. If this happens to be one of the "green knob wonders" toss it in the garbage can and don't look back. If you're using the knife type switch you could re-install it if you find it wasn't the source of your problem.
If it turns out that you still have the problem after removing the switch (and I suspect that you will) there are many things to try which have been suggested by others. Once-upon-a-time I tried all those things and more, but they never really solved my hot restart problem. Then, about 18-20 years ago, on the advice of the World's Best automotive electrical technician, I installed a slave solenoid system. That ended my problem instantly and forever. Even hot restarts in Death Valley in the middle of July, which I've done MANY times, have experienced no problem at all. Of course, a slave solenoid installation won't be "original", but if you do it carefully, it will be very inconspicuous. And it WILL solve your hot restart problem----completely, instantly, and forever.
You can purchase a slave solenoid kit in many full-line automotive part stores. It will include the solenoid, wiring, and installation instructions.In Appreciation of John HinckleyComment
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Green Knob Wonder??
Joe, whats the scoop on the Green Knob Wonders. I have not heard of problems. What do you know about them???
Regards
Bill #8620Comment
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Re: Green Knob Wonder?? *TL*
Real simple. You get what you pay for in battery cut off switches. Buy the knife blade type if it will fit in your application. The Green Wonder does not have enough contact area to handle the several hundred amps a starter can draw on hot start pushing a high compression motor.
Terry
TerryComment
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Re: GNW or Green Thingy.....
Joe,
Green Knob Wonder, Green Thingy, or both? TBarr #24014Comment
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Re: Hot starter problem
grr --- Good points for Michael, but if anyone has a left-mounted battery C2 (ie. '63 - 65 air or a 396) you could R & R the starter easier than the battery.Comment
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Re: Hot Start Problems
Mike --- Your #4 gauge battery cables are correct (factory) size, even for air cars. Sidepipes are good; the pipe turns away from the starter immediately at the outlet flange of the exhaust manifold --- the stock exhaust runs close and parallel to the starter.Comment
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Re: Maybe you've gone metric
Guys, thanks for the help. Jerry, a Metric/Delco solenoid is what I have. Where can I find the Standard Ignition solenoid? Can I get the longer solenoid plunger from the same vendor? Is the spring and plunger installation self explanatory? I will check the older posting as Kurt suggested. I do have side pipes/new battery. I will check to see if the Lectric brand repro spring clamp type battery cables I am using are 2 or 4 gauge. Does anyone know? I do have stock side exhaust and a larger flywheel (14") that requires the use of the staggered bolt starter cone, that I presently have on my newer Delco-refurbed starter. Is there any benifit from using the heavier duty 427 starter on my 327/350 HP? Thankss for the help. Mike Nehra. Member #26303Comment
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remote selonoid??
Joe, do you mean use a remote selonoid kit? I will throw out the green thang. Makes sense. Does anyone know where to get the Standard Ingition brand selonoid?? Thanks Mike NehraComment
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Try CarQuest
Mike -
The CarQuest chain stores here in Mobile, AL, sell Standard Ignition brand parts. I believe the best solenoid for your application is #SS-200X. Please inspect it before leaving the store to make sure it has not evolved into a metric version like the Delco part.
The hot-start (shorter) GM solenoid spring has a free length of about 2". It is part number 1958679. Check your current spring first; the Delco rebuilt may have come with the shorter spring.
I don't know of an aftermarket source for long solenoid plungers, but I have plenty of used ones. I'll gladly ship one to you for the cost of postage. Once you have the starter nose removed, you will see how to install it.
I believe the Lectric Limited cables are 4 gauge. A black, 2 gauge, 24" long positive cable is available from Delco for $15-20. It doesn't come with a "spring-ring" type clamp, but it sure passes juice great. The advice about cleaning the green knob switch device is good. Try that before changing the solenoid, battery, or cables.
I am curious about your battery selection. Is it a reproduction battery? Those are relatively weak compared to modern batteries with 800 to 1000 cold cranking amps.
Assuming you got a rebuilt with the "high-torque" coils/shoes, it would be the same starter that is listed for a 427 with a 14" flywheel.Comment
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