71 engine Pad Help Needed.....

[steve wallach]

I'm considering purchasing a 71 LT1, but even from close up pictures of the engine pad, I don't see any Broach Markings? This is a "Numbers Matching" car, and I would like to have it judged and Top Flight certified if I were to purchase it.

The engine has been rebuilt and the stamped info looks as I would expect, however there does not appear to be any broach marks. There does appear to be some areas where the pad was hit with a surfacing machine.

Any suggestions or comments?

Thanks,

Steve

[mike cobine]

Re: 71 engine Pad Help Needed.....

My understanding from those who have gone over this before here is that you have three separate areas. Assembly stamping, VIN derivative, and pad surface. It sounds like you could pass the first two (25 pts each) but fail the third, meaning you lose 38 points.

Would you pass on a good car for only 38 points?

Remember these were once just cars, and anyone rebuilding an engine long ago never thought twice about running a sanding pad across to clean the deck for new gaskets.

[Dick Whittington (8804)]

Re: 71 engine Pad Help Needed.....

While not approving or condeming any pad, be aware that some pads have much more pronounced broaches than other do. It has to do with the stage of wear on the broach blades. If the characters are correct appearing and you do not see evidence of an attempt to "create broaches" I probably would not be scared of buying the car.

Basically if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, it usually is a duck.

[Steven Cullen (46423)]

Re: 71 engine Pad Help Needed.....

I agree with Dick, and further I've heard that small blocks typically show less pronounced broaching marks than BB

[Chuck Sangerhausen (20817)]

Re: 71 engine Pad Help Needed.....

What do you mean by a "surfacing machine"? What do you mean by "some areas where the pad was hit"? Are saying it looks like a modern machine was used to deck the block, sparing the pad area, but inadvertentedly the cutting head touched the pad area in some places?

If these "areas" are directly below any portion of the machine or VIN stamp areas, I would be suspicious that a replacement engine had been installed. Each individual will have to decide if that's "bad" based on the price and their purposes for the car.

IN MY OPINION...It should be possible to tell if the stamped characters were on the pad when the "surfacing machine" touched the pad, or if they were added later. Examine the depth and outlines of the characters; if the pad been re-stamped AFTER surfacing, the characters should all be fully developed; this assumes that the stamp character received a good full lick square on the pad...if it was hit at an angle or with more force on one side, this is a condition you'll need to recognize.

If it's the original stamped area that was "touched", then expect the depth of the stamped characters to be shallower in places (maybe nearly removed), with surfacing tool marks cutting across the characters. The perimeter outline of the characters should have sharp shoulders where the tool has cut across. I would expect the perimeter of the stamped characters to be microscropically rounded or radiused from the force of the stamp impact; the surfacing tool would tend to make the outlines sharper as it cut off the material with the radius. BTW, you'll probably need a big magnifier to really see these characteristics well...I doubt you'll be able to see it with the naked eye.

[Gerard Quinn (33629)]

Re: 71 engine Pad Help Needed.....

A closeup detailed picture of the pad posted here would help.

[Chuck Sangerhausen (20817)]

If It Quacks Like A Duck...

I agree with Dickie that if it walks like a duck, and it quacks likes a duck, it's probably a duck.

Part of listening to the duck quack is going to be to record all the visible casting dates (under the valve covers too if he'll let you take them off) and confirm that they fairly well grouped over a 2-8 week period. This will confirm that you are at least looking at a whole engine, even if it is a replacement. This period of casting dates may extend up until days before the build date, and the build date is typically no more than several weeks before the car's build date with rare exceptions.

If the duck can recite all of that without a problem, then it's very likely a "real deal" DUCK!

[steve wallach]

Re: If It Quacks Like A Duck...

Thanks Guys,

Steve

[steve wallach]

Who can I e-mail a picture of the pad to post it?

I have a good picture of the pad I can e-mail, but I don't know how to post it. Can I e-mail it to someone who can post it?

Thanks,

Steve

[Dick Whittington (8804)]

Re: Who can I e-mail a picture of the pad to post

Steve, send it to me and I will post it later this evening

dickwhittington4@aol.com

[steve wallach]

Re: Who can I e-mail a picture of the pad to post

Thanks Dick,

I sent it, so hopefully you have it now.

Thanks again,

Steve

[Dick Whittington (8804)]

Re: Who can I e-mail a picture of the pad to post

Not yet Steve. Resend it just in case that it is lost