71 seat rail

[john peeling]

Hello everyone My seat rails actually thier attachment point to body of car is needing re finishing (rusty) The org finish is black phosphate plate any paint that is close in color? Im not planning on taking these rails apart to plate and re rivet

[Harmon C.]

Re: 71 seat rail

John

I would phosphate the assembly before I would paint. The bottom is what most look at.

Lyle

[Chuck S.]

Re: 71 seat rail

Lyle, this is one of cases where I have to recognize my limitation as a restorer, and approach this problem totally different from you (refer back to our post exchange below in Denny Johnson's thread. ).

I know full well what finish the 70-72 judging guide expects you to have on seat adjusters, and I once held this very same belief. HOWEVER, from a discussion on another board by someone who asserted THEY WERE THERE, and after close examination of my own seat adjusters, I'm no longer convinced the finish is black phosphate. I believe it was likely a grungy black paint that looks very much like black phosphate. There may be so many restored cars with re-finished seat adjusters out there (black phosphate just like the JG, painted, etc.), it's difficult to say what the original finish was anymore. Maybe someone will let us take their seat adjusters out of a Bowtie car and hold them up to the sunlight to check for black phosphate sparkles...Nah, probably not.

Anyway, I came to this decision not for convenience, but it is emminently convenient. Since I lack the tools and equipment to disassemble/reassemble the seat adjusters for plating, I have to choose a process that is totally different from what you (and the JG) suggest. To refinish the seat adjusters I would use the black phosphate paint that is available from SEMS and other sources. Hey, it's not black phosphate like the JG says, but it's a good representation of the grungy black paint I believe they originally used. So, when Reba looks under my seats and sees it's not black phosphate (Is that PAINT?!!), I'll just have to take whatever whuppin' she gives me...maybe it won't knock me down to Second Flight.

[Joe L.]

Re: 71 seat rail

Chuck-----

The floor bracket sections of the rails (i.e. the parts that bolt to the floor and are riveted to the rails) is definitely black phosphate. At least, they are on my 69, every other one I've looked at and also on 2 NOS car sets of these that I have.

As far as the rail section is concerned, I don't really know, for sure, if they're black phosphate, or not. However, I don't think that they're painted. They appear to be some sort of oiled, "natural" finish. Bear in mind that a "natural" finish does not mean "shiny metal". In this case, it means the natural finish of extruded steel stock from which the rail sections were fabricated.

[Chuck S.]

Re: 71 seat rail

Well, Joe, if you say those NOS adjusters pass the "sparkle test", I guess I'll have to back up and reconsider the proper finish. If the front and rear brackets are black phosphate, then the dark portion of the adjuster very likely would have been finished as an assembly after the brackets were riveted on.

Hmmmm...I still don't have the equipment to be disassembling/assembling seat adjusters, so I don't know that this information will really change my course. As they said last week when the snow storm shut down Al Gore's global warming conference in D.C., this is an "inconvenient truth". I'll probably still have to take an interior judge's whuppin' for paint...unless of course you want to sell me a set of those NOS seat adjusters. (Only kidding you, Joe.)

P. S. I concur on the inner portion of the rail; natural steel.

[john peeling]

Re: 71 seat rail

What is sems? What is their web address?

[john peeling]

Re: 71 seat rail

What is sems? What is their web address?

[Joe L.]

Re: 71 seat rail

Chuck-----

No, I'm sure that the complete assembly was not phosphated. The components were done separately. The "feet" brackets are definitely different in finish than the rest of the assembly. As I say, they are clearly black phosphate. The rail sections, while they are "darkened" by some process, do not appear to me to be phosphate-finished. They may be, but if they are, then it's a DIFFERENT phosphate finish than the "feet".

[Joe L.]

Addendum

Also, the "feet" brackets "feel" like a phosphate finish. In other words, they have the "chalkboard"-like feel to them. The rail sections are very smooth----no "chalkboard" feel, at all, to them.

[Patrick H.]

Re: 71 seat rail

Chuck,

This picture might help you. Sorry it wasn't sunny enough to remove the seat out of my Bowtie car and bring it outsidde, but I figured this would work.

I inspected the seat track front and rear, and used some WD-40 to clean them more. It's definitely not paint, and a dark gray phosphate would be correct. Some portions were definitely not black so I'd lean dark gray.

Patrick

[Joe L.]

Re: 71 seat rail

Patrick-----

Yes, that's one of the the "foot" sections I was referring to. They're definitely black phosphate (understanding, of course, that "black" phosphate ranges from light gray to nearly black).

[Joe L.]

Photo #1

Patrick, et al-----

Well, I was able to get at these without too much trouble (I don't have a huge number of boxes filled with group 11 parts and I was able to get at the one that had these in them without too much effort).

The "feet" sections are definitely black phosphate. The STATIONARY portion of the rail section is also black phosphate. The SLIDER portion of the rail is natural steel. The adjuster lever and attached bracket is black phosphate. The spring is black phosphate. The rivets are natural, confirming that the the pieces were assembled after phosphating of the so-finished components.

[Joe L.]

Photo #2

Here's another view:

[Chuck S.]

Re: 71 seat rail

John, I had the wrong manufacturer...actually it's not SEM, but OEM Paints that makes a simulated phosphate finish paint.

They make two coatings that may be applicable for the seat adjusters: Number 21010, Zinc Phospaint (Black), and Number 21020, Zinc Phospaint, (Dark Gray). Their website is shown below...it's a tortured path to get to the info. Click on Products & Services > Product Highlights > Full Spin > Body Bolts, GM.

Don't forget to detail the rivets natural as Joe described...you can try masking them or just paint them and then use a Q-tip with lacquer thinner to clean off the paint while it's still wet. Then you'll have to figure out how to keep them from rusting; I recommend the same technique that you use to keep the natural inner rail from rusting if rust bothers you. Pre-Lube Six from Quanta, or discrete application of satin clear might work. (Wink, wink.)

For a vendor source, I can't remember where I got mine. Check at the usual Corvette vendors that supply spray cans, Eastwood, etc.




OEM Paints

[Chuck S.]

Patrick and Joe...

Thanks to both you guys for going to the extra trouble to get me straight on the black or dark gray phosphate. It takes time and effort to go out to the car, clean, and take photos, or dig out boxes and pull out parts to take pictures. I really appreciate your efforts.