Can someone describe the correct speed for a Tung Sol turn signal flasher. My car has a correct dated flasher but I was told that the speed might be to fast. Any help would be great. thanks Kevin
-
-
Re: C3-Turn Signal Flashers
Kevin - I trust you are talking about a blue Tung-Sol 224 or a Signal Stat 144. If so, to the Auto Parts store and get a new Wagner 224 or a Littelfuse 224 (they are both even blue plastic) and plug it in and time the frequency of the flashs and do the same for your original flasher. Then politely tell the judge the range of the flasher frequency is between X number of flasher cycles per minutes and Y number of flasher cycles per minute and yours meets the spec. Pete -
Re: C3-Turn Signal Flashers
Thanks Pete, Yes I was talking abouit the Tung Sol 224. Now after checking the JM, it states that all flashers are to be #536. Also in 72 it has DOT on them, this flsher does not?Comment
-
Re: C3-Turn Signal Flashers
If your car is an early built 1972 it might not have the DOT marking. What is the date code on your flasher? If the date code is reasonable for the build of the car it might be the original. Lots of maybes there, but with the date one can tell if there is a chance it is original.TerryComment
-
Re: C3-Turn Signal Flashers
Kevin - I was afraid you would look in the TIM&JG. I believe (actually I'm convinced) it is in err as far as the turn signal flasher is concerned for two reasons. One as far as I know GM always used fixed load flashers in the turn signal circuit because if a lamp fails the flasher won't flash and the owner is alerted to a potential safety problem and 2) the #536 is a variable load flasher designed to flash with 2 to probably up to 8 lamps as in the hazard warning circuit. The variable load flashers will continue operation if a lamp or two or even 3 or more fails and so if it's in the turn signal circuit the owner thinks the fturn signal lamps are functioning and they are not creating a potential safety problem. So, the #536 will work in the turn signal circuit but it's not what ws installed in the car originally by GM.
If you are concerned about safe operation, install a new 224 for driving and find a #536 for judging.
Oh and BTW, it's interesting to note that the DOT on the Tung-Sol 224s didn't start to show up until later in 71 or 72, I'll have to double check that. It wasn't a requirement that the part had the DOT on it but the packaging or a note in the package had to indicate the item conformed to the DOT requirement.
Have fun.
PeteComment
-
Re: C3-Turn Signal Flashers
Kevin,
My 71 #16798 (late) has a correctly dated non DOT #536 for the hazard flasher and a correctly dated blue plastic #224 for the turn signals. This is a very unmolested car like yours. During flight judging the judges seem confused with the #536 but didn't have enough knowledge to take a deduct. I believe it is correct and original. My 70 has a correctly dated non DOT #552 for the hazard flashers and a blue plastic #224 for the turn signals. Judges were again confused w/ the #552 for the hazard flashers. I have not seen the new 70-72 TIM & JG so I'm not sure if any new revisions were made on this.Comment
-
Re: C3-Turn Signal Flashers
Pete's right...different flashers were designed for different purposes. Generally, the emergency flasher was independent of the number/type of lamp loads it would drive while turn signal flashers were sensitive to the number of lamp loads they drove.
The two GM PN's called out for the TS flasher are the same for '69-72 with a third PN being introduced in '72:
3909545 and 383638
Plus 6273330 added on AIM date 9/15/71
MANY untouched cars from this era that I've looked at had plastic canned Tung Sol 224 flashers in the TS socket. But, while not currently recognized by NCRS judging manual, the 1972 edition of the Corvette Parts and Accessories manual describes the service replacement TS flasher (NOTES column) as a 'LF-224'.
I read that as a Littlefuse #224 flasher and that could be what the added PN (6273330) equates to. It makes sense to me since MANY of the various relays used on these Shark cars bear the Littlefuse emboss on them meaning Littlefuse WAS an active supplier to GM/Corvette of electrical components in this era...
Last, load sensitive flashers work by having a bi-metal actuator make/break the circuit based on heating/cooling. Their blink rate will be a function of the specific branch circuit current that flows. The variable load flashers achieve a constant blink rate, independent of load, by essentially counting time (so long ON, so long OFF).
So, you not only need to have a correct, original, properly functioning turn signal flasher installed, but you need to have the correct lamps installed in your sockets in order to draw the correct amount of branch circuit current to achieve the proper blink rate.
The older cars (1963 and earlier) used No. 1034 lamps. That was changed in 1964 (a look at the AIM books confirm ALL of the flashers changed GM PN then in lock-step) to No. 1157 lamps. The 1157 lamp is an 'improved' version of the 1034 and it's a bit brighter even though it fits the same socket.
Straight axle and '63 Corvette owners often have this problem (blink rate is off) because they've inadvertently installed 1157 vs. 1034 lamps in their cars! Also, there are other variations on the basic 1157 lamp (e.g. 2057) that are also fit/function compatible but have slightly different filament characteristics.
So, to get the 'right' blink rate, it takes TWO to tango. You need the correct flasher module AND you need the right lamps to be installed. Few bother to pull their lamp lens, remove the bulbs, and verify exactly what lamp(s) they have installed in the car... But, I suggest you verify both the flasher as well as the lamps in your effort to get the right blink rate!Comment
-
Re: C3-Turn Signal Flashers
Terry, As to the date of the flasher it's 430 or the 43rd week of 70 correct? I was reciting the manual using the absence of the DOT as further proof that it's correct for my 2/2/71 build date.
Pete, Think I've got it. More than likely the 536 was ment to describe the warning flasher and the 224 for the turn signals.
Hi Dave, Thanks for the comparison and your continuing support! It seems like all is original, but is the flash speed of a turn signal cause for failure during PV, even if the flasher is original?
Jack, Thank you, I will check the bulbs as well!Comment
-
Re: C3-Turn Signal Flashers
Kevin,
I'm not 100% sure but my guess is that the flash speed could cause a PV failure. I think Jack's suggestion is a real good place to start. I'll bet you have the wrong bulbs. After you check them let me know if the problem persists. I'm sure we can get the proper flasher to you. Any #224 will suffice for the PV as long as it flashes properly. It's all about proper function.Comment
-
Re: C3-Turn Signal Flashers
Dave, No reason to take a chance with such a simple fix, I'll check the bulbs ASAP, hope it's that easy! I'll let you know. Thanks KevinComment
-
Re: C3-Turn Signal Flashers
Yes Kevin, your read of the date on the flasher is correct. That puts it as manufactured in calendar year 1970 -- before the DOT requirement. That date works well for the build of your car. I would stand with the non-DOT flasher. We expect 1971 Corvettes to have non-DOT flashers.
Let us know how the speed of flash works out. When we were doing the third edition we considered putting in a specification for the rate of flash, but we could find no spec from Chevrolet, and it seemed that we were in no position to call out a rate of flash if they didn't. We were confidant there was one someplace, but we had no access to it. That is not to say that a judge will not call an abnormal rate of flash -- they surely will on a PV, and some might in an operations check as well.TerryComment
-
Re: C3-Turn Signal Flashers
Kevin - If you're going to do a PV it's well worth checking all the bulbs to make sure they are correct, but I'm betting on the 30 + year old flasher being the source of the problem. Let us know. PeteComment
Comment