If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You must be an NCRS member
before you can post: click the Join NCRS link above to join. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.
I’ve owned a 66 cpe NOM driver for several years, and have begun a frame off restoration . after sand blasting a structurally perfect frame , I find that the frame vins in both locations have been ground off. the car is registered and insured in California with the original vin. What are my options ? is this illegal?
Should I dump the car? Do I tell the next owner the frame has no vin?
Quite a few original cars (especially from the midwest 'rust' belt) were repaired/restored via swapping frames from a donor car. The VIN number exists in only ONE place on a car and that's on the VIN plate. The other locations (engine stamp pad + frame) contain a 'segment' or 'derivative' of the VIN which is NOT legally the 'VIN number'...
Different States have different laws regarding VIN number or mfgr 'ID' marks (the later is what the frame stamp sequence is) and advice here should come from a qualified attorney interpreting the specific law(s) in your neck of the woods. You should get qualified advice from a legal practitioner with malpractice insurance instead of take word of mouth advice from those of us who are NOT qualified to render opinions...
It's pretty obvious there are basically two alternatives here:
(1) The car was involved in a prior theft incident and the frame numbers were oblitherated as a cover up. If so, about all you can do is have local law enforcement run trace of your car's body mounted VIN number to see if there's an issue with your current clear title position.
(2) The car was repaired/restored by a prior owner doing a frame swap and the donor car's frame numbers were removed to obviate proper ownership concerns of subsequent owners. Frames and sections of frames are legitimately sold by scrap yards every day for just these purposes...
Or you can ignore things and go on your way. The VIN segment stamps on a Corvette frame are very hard to see with the body on the car and are NOT judged. But, now you know you have an 'anomaly' and perhaps approach #1 will let you sleep better.
Of course, there's a downside risk to approach #1 and you could lose the car if it's VIN makes a 'hit' in the investigation. There's a possible upside benefit here too worth talking about.
IF you open a bona fide police department investigation, that gives law enforcement official legitimate access to the insurance underwriter's data base (see prior threads). The odds are pretty high, that the data base will give you source information on your car (what dealer was the car originally shipped to from the factory and when?). That's information that some classic Corvette owners would KILL to have, but the data base is closed to us for general 'historian' purposes...
Frame stamps can be light in terms of depth + obscured by surface 'scale' on the frame. You really need to be looking at the frame with the body removed to assist visual access. If the body is mounted, you simply may NOT be able to see the stamping(s).
Typically, you'll find one stamp on the LH frame rail just below the door sill plate slightly behind the driver's seat. The second (identical) stamp should be on the LH frame rail above the rear wheel centered on the 'kick up' section of the frame.
Often, it's hard to impossible to read/verify these stamps on aged factory original cars until the frame has been cleaned up (dipped/blasted) and surface scale removed to get down to the underlying bare steel of the frame. Even then, a frame that was 'lightly' stamped and suffered severe oxidation over the years may not yield a legible number sequence to read/verify...
.... sometime between early and late 1965 MY. It moved from where Jack H. describes (see pic below, pink eraser location) to just behind the rear body mount (orange handle). In either location, the characters will be stamped about 1/2 inch from the outer frame rail.
The orange location is where it is stamped on this very late 1965 convertible. I wish others would report where they have found it on their '65s so we can narrow the changeover. I believe that for 1966 and 1967, the location is near the rear mount (orange).
If I had car 194376S123456 and had a rusted out frame, I really wouldn't be crazy about buying and installing a near perfect frame for 6S101234 under it today.
Years ago, no problem. I would have bought the frame legally. I would have installed it legally like any other used part. I would have a receipt.
However today, there are either people trying to disprove the originality of the car to kill your price or people out of the woodwork to claim ownership of the car or whatever. I've heard of people claiming their original engine was stolen when they were just sold 30 years ago, so they can get it back for free. The wierder it can be, the more likely someone is thinking of doing it.
So from that standpoint, I'd take a torch and puddle that entire area until the numbers flowed right back into the metal so they could never be found again, just to prevent any hassles from anyone for me.
My 65 has an approximate build date of 5/13/65. The VIN location on the frame is where you have the pink eraser. So the changeover would have ocurred sometime after mid May.
Previously, all I had to go by was my early coupe 014xx with location at the pink eraser, and my late late convertible with location at the orange handle.
We use cookies to deliver our services, and to analyze site activity. We do not share or sell any personal information about our users. For additional details, refer to our Privacy Policy.
By clicking "I AGREE" below, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our personal data processing and cookie practices as described therein. You also acknowledge that this forum may be hosted outside your country and you consent to the collection, storage, and processing of your data in the country where this forum is hosted.
Tweet
Comment