Number interpretation: grease pencilled

[Dave S.]

Re: Conflicting information....

The job number hand written on the tank sticker(s) had to have been done in the "office" prior to application to the tank. I have the original Corvette Order sheet from my 70 LS-5 with a "carbon" 256 on it and when the tank was dropped it had exactly the same "carbon" 256. The same situation exists on my 70 and 71 LT-1's. In addition I have several 4 digit crayon marks on my cars but all have 3 digit job numbers on the build sheets which would lead me to believe that job numbers were assigned every work day.

[Chuck S.]

Re: Conflicting information....

Dave,

So, we and Patrick are all dying to know...Are the handwritten "job numbers" on your tank stickers identical to the 3 digit "job numbers" marked on your cars?

Chuck Sangerhausen

[Tom B.]

Re: Clarification to Build Sheet Job Numbers

I should probably clarify what I was attempting to state about the hand written job numbers found on gas tank build sheets.

Regardless at which point or where in the system the hand written number was applied to the build sheet(s), it's a good bet that it was intended at some point, whether it be on the assembly line or not, to be the same as what was marked as a job number on the body. I am a subscriber to what Reba says about them matching, but only to the point that many (and I do mean "many") don't, including what appears hand written on my own 1968 gas tank build sheet. What went out the door at St. Louis I don't believe hinged on what hand written "job" number was on the build sheet, but rather if the correct build sheet options and features were built into the car.

All three of my 1968 numbers, VIN (last 3 digits), job hand written build sheet, and body written number don't match but they are "close" and in the ballpark. Additionally, I have no reason to believe my gas tank build sheet is not the original one that belongs to the car. I also have no doubt that there are original build sheets or "correct copies" of ones that do not belong with their respective cars like Chuck mentions.

TBarr #24014

[Dave S.]

Re: Conflicting information....

Chuck, In none of the 3 examples I have do the handwritten numbers on the build sheets match the VIN or the crayon marks. In 2 cases two of the three numbers of the handwritten job number match the last three numbers of the VIN, i.e. VIN is 11756 and handwritten job number is 256. The confusion continues.

[Chuck S.]

Re: Conflicting information....

Tom/Dave,

Thanks for the additional detail. I learn something everyday (hopefully).

Sometimes, I think the NCRS is little like that old fable about the blind men trying to describe an elephant; each of us is trying to understand the total process from the small part we have to study. Fascinating.

Chuck Sangerhausen

[Stan F.]

Re: Conflicting information....

I'm with Tom and Dave on this one...

The handwritten number on the build order copy (tank sticker) is a corporate/office generated number while the grease pencil numbers are a different type of job number assigned at the plant. My understanding is that the number on the tank sticker was assigned when the order was received by GM; this number went from 1-500 and was then rolled over. It should either match the last three digits of the serial number/VIN or be the serial number minus 500 for those cars greater than 500. My 1970 coupe is #00538 which is greater than 500 so the handwritten number that appears on the tank sticker is 38 (538 - 500).

The grease pencil numbers on body panels were an entirely different matter although I understand that they also ran from 1-500. On my 70, they are located in several places and are either 72 (under right front surround and under rear deck) or 472 (on right lower firewall, metal bulkhead behind seat, and vertical fiberglass in front of the fuel tank). These numbers were used to track the car in plant before a serial number/VIN was installed.

My guess is that the tank sticker number is chronological in nature, that is, as an order was received at corporate, the next number was asssigned. When these orders were sent to the plant, someone at St. Louis determined what the most efficient build sequence would be based on any production constraints at that time. The orders were then grouped accordingly and the numbers that are grease penciled onto body panels determined the order the cars would be built.

That's my theory anyway...

Regards,

Stan Falenski NCRS# 24272

[Patrick T.]

More Weird Items On The Tank Sticker...

Stan, just one more addition, then I quit. On my '67 tank sticker there is an option typed on which specifies 4 ply red stripe tires, but there is a pencil line running through it and replaced with the handwritten "WSW". I guess that day or week when the car came by that station, all they had were white walls, and that was put on the car. I have verified this with the original owner.

As I said earlier, the hand written Job Number on the right is '30'. Just underneath that is another cryptic code, also written by hand which is "RN 1593, DRB". Looks like DRB is someones initials. Do you or anyone else know what that stands for? Does RN 1593 mean a rollover number or recall number? Also, would this have been written in the office or on the assembly line? I have never seen a sticker with this on it before. Thanks Patrick

[Tom B.]

Re: Conflicting information....

Stan,

I think your information is very close to what I've come across before as well as what I've been told directly. I think there are additional instances where the number hand written on the build sheet will not match the last three of the VIN, as well as subtraction of 500, and I believe it has to do with things getting "pulled" from the assembly line (body or frame and it's components), and prior to the VIN assignment. For each instance one body or frame assembly, etc is pulled there are potentially two cars that have no matches of the three numbers (VIN, job body, or job sheet number). Those instances would be "fewer" but from questions, responses, and my own 1968 build sheet as well, I'm sure they exist. TBarr #24014

[Patrick T.]

Re: Conflicting information....

Tom, I did Stan's 500 subtraction test on my Job number and came up with 26 instead of 30, but that's pretty close, if this is like horseshoes. Patrick

[Wayne M.]

Re: More Weird Items On The Tank Sticker...

Just WAGing, Patrick, but could RN 1593 DRB be Revision Notice 1595, (DRB is the person, as you surmise), authorizing the replacement of redline tires by whitewalls ? Essentially, the note is the audit trail for the change order.

[Tom B.]

Re: Conflicting information....

Patrick,

It's just a little closer than my two are, but I have a difference of 13. TBarr #24014

[John H.]

"Job Numbers" - How It Was.......

Just got back to the Board tonight (we moved two weeks ago and I haven't had a chance to get hooked up until today). This "job number" thing is one of my favorite subjects, as I lived with it in Chevrolet assembly plants (including St. Louis Corvette) for many years early in my career.

The number everyone refers to as the "job number" was known in Chevy plants as the "Sequence Number", which was 1) Totally unrelated to the VIN, and 2) Rolled over either at 500 or 999, depending on how the plant wanted to do it. Just to make it more interesting, the Corvette Body Shop had their own separate "job number" by which they tracked parts, options, and subassemblies in-process prior to the Paint Shop; these bodies were scrambled in the Paint Shop to accommodate body style mix, part availability, off-line paint repairs, and scheduling changes, so they seldom exited the Paint Shop in the same physical sequence in which they entered. When the painted body was loaded on the beginning of the Trim Line after paint, all the order information for that car was "broadcast" electronically to teletype machines all over the Final Assembly Area that had to build other assemblies (like instrument panels, engines, chassis, wheels & tires, etc.) that ultimately would match up to that particular body as it progressed through the system. Two numbers were assigned and printed (not hand-written) on that "Broadcast Copy" - one was the vehicle serial number (which was stamped on the serial plate and a derivative of which was stamped on the engine and transmission), and the other was the "Sequence Number", which was the "job number" we're talking about - if anyone has ever seen the "Chevrolet Broadcast Copy" with all the little pre-printed boxes and two and three-letter or number codes in them describing all the parts, that is the "bible" that described how the car was to be built and identified all the key parts affected by variable option conditions - it also carried both the vehicle serial number and the sequence number, neither of which was related to the other except by pure coincidence. Even today, the broadcast sheet or build sheet (depends which company your're talking about, but everyone does it the same way) carries the same two numbers and all the information needed to build the car. As noted, you will also see "job numbers" written on the car with only two digits - human nature on the line says why write three digits when two work fine - why put a zero ahead of two other digits when everyone in the plant knows how the system works? (they never thought they'd ever have to explain it all to someone 30 or 40 years later). Nobody paid any attention whatever to the vehicle serial number until the car was off the end of the line; while it was still on the line, the sequence number told everyone EXACTLY where the car was and that's how it was tracked. If a car had to be pulled off the line while in Final Assembly (extremely rare occurrence), when it was re-inserted, a "Broadcast Clerk" on a bicycle went to every Broadcast Machine (teletype) station in the plant and inserted that car's Broadcast sheet into its new location in the "pile" of sheets being used in that station, then called every Foreman to let him know that "Sequence number 308 is now between 446 and 447 - don't miss it and get the whole main line out of sequence".

And that's how it was.....I lived with it for many years. I suspect that the 3-digit number with the dashes was a supplier date code for the part indicating the date the part was molded or finished.

John

[Tom B.]

Re: "Job Numbers" - How It Was.......

John,

Thank you again for your excellent first hand information. I was unable to locate your previous discussion and information in the Archives since some portions of them are currently unavailable. Thanks again for taking the time. TBarr #24014

[Juliet P.]

Re: Number interpretation: grease pencilled

John, That is a great post &explains a lot! I've still got some questions though (of course, I always do). My '70 Conv 350/300 AT has handwritten on the build sheet (yes it is from MY car) sequence number 162. I have found this same number grease penciled under the rear carpet. I found yellow grease 163 (One number HIGHER) on the rear valance (the lower piece between the exhaust tips). My VIN is 4102. One could question I suppose whether it's a 0 or a 6 handwritten, but you be the judge. I don't have a pic of the undercarpet area.. but you can bet I'll have one next roll of film that gets developed. Here's my build sheet & the rear valance:









Where else can I look on the car for this number? I know it isn't inside either door panel or under the carpets in the main area. I've been there.

Also, what are those numbers, in reverse, coming through from the back side of the build sheet? They're in carbon, and really are on the top of the front side in a large font (someone stamped it on the back of one of the copies in the carbon stack I guess). They look like 38 2T9 or something like that if you read it in reverse? What is that # and how does it, or does it relate to anything else?

Could that rear valance be something that was pulled on the line and replaced? Could it be a dealer part from some prior damage and not original?

This is a great thread BTW. Thanks. ~Juliet


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[Chuck S.]

Re: "Job Numbers" - How It Was.......

John,

Thanks for taking the time to write all that out again.

I have a few questions:

(1) As I understand you, the serial number and sequence number were assigned for the first time when the painted body started down the trim line; Did an inspector or supervisor walk around the body at that time and mark the newly assigned sequence number and option codes all at one time?

(2) My sequence number was "426" on, I believe, the last production day for 1970 cars. I also see "26" and "AC" (my car has air condioning) marked on the rear plenum, as well as "26AC" under the rear deck; Have the line people simply dropped the "4" from 426? All other places on the car, the sequence number is fully marked as "426". An interesting observation is that all writing on the rear floor area and under the deck is UPSIDE DOWN, i.e. facing toward the rear of the car. Seems impossible that it was written AFTER the body was assembled, unless the guy was double-jointed or could write upside down. Any comments on how or why?

(3) On the right-hand rear floor area, my car is marked "437", Since this is the only place this mark is shown, it is clearly not the sequence number. I interpreted it as identifying the body as a coupe, from the designation "19437". If that's true, these marks would have been made earlier before the body was assembled wouldn't they? Would that also explain the "upside-down" marks discussed above?

Your assistance is greatly appreciated.

Chuck Sangerhausen