C3 (72) Cotter pins

[Peter L.]

Re: C3 (72) Cotter pin judging

Chuck - I don't think it's about disagreement but about variations folks who have looked at the details have experienced; so it's my opinion (others might suggest otherwise) that if a new owner has only to worry about the finish on the cotter pins on his/her restoration, I suggest they have done an excellent job. As Terry said, you can't loose too many points on cotter pins. Have fun, Pete

[Joe L.]

Re: C3 (72) Cotter pin plating

Pete----

Like I mentioned, I NEVER use "plain" cotter pins for ANYTHING, even front wheel bearings where it doesn't matter since they're corrosion-protected by the grease. I use only plated or stainless cotter pins. I prefer stainless, though.

[Chuck S.]

Ahhh...But If Were Only The Cotter Pins... *NM*

[Patrick H.]

72 Cotter pin judging is different!!!

I'll throw my own example in here.

My 72 was being judged at its Regional Meet. The chassis judge was insistent that the way the cotter pins were installed on my car's front spindle was incorrect. I could not imagine it had ever been apart (it hasn't) but I figured this might be an area he knew better than I.

For the subsequent National meet, I sure did try to bend them the way they were "supposed" to be, but only 2 of the 4 would bend. Imagine my consternation later when I saw Ed Foss' 4 mile 72 and saw that my pins HAD originally been installed correctly and I found out that 72's were installed different than previous years! The judge had been wrong!!!

I fixed the cotter pin bends back to their original position before the judging commenced.

As noted elsewhere, consult your AIM and trust your car. I should have.
The CORRECT 1972 cotter pin orientation for the front ball joints is pictured below.

Patrick

[Chuck S.]

Uh...Patrick, The AIM Shows It Different...

Maybe you meant "consult your AIM, BUT trust your low mileage original car".

I think there's a lesson here. I am not surprised that cotter pins may have come out of St. Louis several different ways, because there were several different human beings bending cotter pins. A judge may see cotter pins one way, and that's the way it was done; no exceptions...it's like the blind men trying to describe an elephant.

Those who have been supervisors know there are some people who are just going to do things their way regardless of how the "instruction book" says to do it. I expect supervisors and inspectors at GM were like most supervisors; they picked their battles, i.e. "I don't care how the @$$#*%! bends his cotter pins as long as it doesn't interfere with the alignment equipment or slow him down".

[Patrick H.]

72 is different than your 70.

Chuck,

I don't have my 72 AIM handy (it's off site with the cars), but IIRC it's different than my 71 with regard to these pins, and my picture shows the way that I found in the manual - and originally on the car. I went back to check after all the judging and saw it there.

Anyone with a 72 AIM handy to confirm?

Patrick

[Chuck S.]

Oops...My Bad...

The AIM note applies only to the lower ball joint; your photo is of the upper ball joint. Patrick, is your lower ball joint cotter pin bent per the AIM note?

[Patrick H.]

Re: Oops...My Bad...

Chuck,

My ball joint cotter pins are both of the same configuration.

Patrick

[Harmon C.]

Re: Oops...My Bad...

I have found that a judge that takes off for cotter pins bent wrong may not even notice the ball joint configeration wrong. It's like the old saying they can't see the forest for the trees.

[Terry M.]

Re: Oops...My Bad...

I think they changed the alignment setting equipment at the 1972 model introduction. Prior to that they had to be bent to clear the alignment equipment. John H can tell us more about that equipment, but the notes in the AIM would lead one to think the way the ball stud cotters are bent was not optional. I believe the earlier equipment indexed off the ball studs, and the later tooling used the face where the wheels bolted.

FWIW: The original ball stud cotters on my 1995 Caprices were bent the same way as the 1971 and earlier Corvettes. John indicated many if not all RWD body on frame GM vehicles were aligned using similar equipment -- thus similar ball stud cotter clearance issues.

Chuck: Is the plating such a big deal if we can't agree on how the pins were bent at the ball studs?

[Chuck S.]

Re: Oops...My Bad...

"Chuck: Is the plating such a big deal if we can't agree on how the pins were bent at the ball studs? "

Nah...Not bothering me...YET! Maybe Rob will pipe up here...he's probably got a totally different perspective. When I think about all the details judges might not agree on...gives me the willies.

Anyway...judges worrying too much about these tiny little details don't have enough cars to judge. These annoying little deducts threaten to take the "fun" out of NCRS judging. Judging about eight cars a day forces you to focus on the BIGGER PICTURE.