Restoration/Antique batteries??? Judging question

[Dwight P.]

Like most Corvette lovers/restorers I am pursueing that ever elusive goal of perfection. After each show I carefully study the discrepancies and then set about cleaning, searching, purchasing and installing. One item that is always penalized is the replacement lead/acid Restoration battery.

Restoration and Antique both produce batteries that are very, very close to the Delco original batteries that were delivered with C2's(and others). I inspected an original battery next to my replacement(#558) and the only difference was the texture of the material used on the top of the battery...and that diffference was very slight. I would venture to say that if I could find a brand new N.O.S. battery and place it next to the replacement, it would be diffecult to tell the difference without actually touching the tar on the top of the battery.

There are many replacement items that do not receive any deduction or very small deductions for originality. Why is there a 7 point penality for an item that is so close to the original? If the penalties are supposed to reflect originality, this penality seems out of line.

DP

[Marc W.]

Re: Restoration/Antique batteries??? Judging quest

I had the same problem on my 58 delco battery from Restoration Battery at the Fl.Regional Meet in Jan07.I lost 7 points and they wrote beside Delco battery= Plastic Top in pencil.I called the owner of Restoration Battery and he told me to go to a local automotive store and buy a spraycan of DupliColor Rubberized Undercoat and mask off the top with masking tape.I have done that and my delco battery top looks very original to me.

[Brad K.]

Re: Restoration/Antique batteries??? Judging quest

Being a perfectionist in pursuit of Top Flight (or further) within the NCRS is a deadend street full of frustration and anxiety. I received a Regional Top Flight in lieu of a "perfect" battery (ie: non-tar top, Restoration Battery.... cost me 7 points) Every Judge I've spoken with about "how" should I go about getting a tartop "look" said to "forget it" I think an experienced judge can "smell" a fake.

Judges today reserve a "perfect" score for those very few individuals who have spent incredible amounts of money to purchase originality straight from the back rooms of 50's and 60's garages that are indeed very rare original pieces of history. Things like original tires, batteries, hoses, fan belts and anything else that has been preserved through the years. Yes, they do exist and the judges will sniff them out. Afterall how would you feel if you had spent thousands of dollars for a truly original battery and the guy next to you got full credit for a repo?

[John R.]

Re: Restoration/Antique batteries??? Judging quest

In my opinion, this is an area where the judges go too far. If the battery appears as original, it should get full credit. This is the way the great majority of "dead-on" reproduction parts are judged. I routed out the top on a restoration battery and filled it with roofing tar last year. It looks (and feels) exactly like the original. I received full credit at a chapter meet and a seven point deduction at the regional after one of the judges stuck his fingernail in the tar. When I took exception to the deduction, the team leader explained that the judges know that there are no tar top batteries currently being manufactured and mine looked too new to be NOS.

[Stephen B.]

Re: Restoration/Antique batteries??? Judging quest

Has their ever been a "perfect" 100% judged correct car? My '86 is at 98.1, and I'd love to raise it to 99.

[Jim R.]

Re: Restoration/Antique batteries??? Judging quest

Brad ,do you think the guy with the most money, that his car should be the only one that does not lose points, every one of us loves our hobby and cars, but some of us cant afford all new old stock or original parts ,then again maybe your right and the ncrs doesnt want guys like myself and others alike to have there cars gudged. just a thought nothing meant by this, just that if its a good repo part i think it shows your trying to do right by the ncrs jg.

[ed styczynski]

Re: Restoration/Antique batteries??? Judging quest

I have a 65 that has gone through Duntov, Triple crown, etc. - have never lost a point on my "tar top " battery - which I was told to purchase from New Castle Battery which I understand has now got a web site www.turbostart.com. They also dated it for me. I think they can be reached at 724-654-9300 ask for Bob. Good luck.

[Jim R.]

Re: Restoration/Antique batteries??? Judging quest

steve ,you can try and locate that original 3 gallons of fuel that the factory put in the tank on the assby line!

[Stephen B.]

Re: Restoration/Antique batteries??? Judging quest

Good idea. I've been arguing that the soot in the tailpipes was dirt from the Bowling Green plant; however, Dick Whittington would not buy it. lolol.

[Gary B.]

"Too new to be NOS"; That's bogus

John,

If that's exactly what the judge said, then I think the judge is incorrect. Is he or she saying that when a real tar top battery came off the assembly line it couldn't have looked as good? How can he or she possible say that? I think this is different than "over-restored", such as triple chrome instead of flash chrome. Would your battery have passed judging with no deduct if you had sprinkled a little dust on it?

Gary

[Larry L.]

Re: "Too new to be NOS"; That's bogus

I like a lot of guys got a new Delco maintence free battery and took a 50% hit on the battery. I don't need a switch or a charger or any of that clap trap. At the judging meet I left the doors open all day etc. I store the car in a heated garge and it sets from Oct. to May. I pull the cover off, look under neith for drips. Wipe the wax off the bumpers and KH nockoffs put the key in the ignition crank it till the oil pressure come up. Pump the gas pedel 3 time and it fires.
At cruise ins there are the orig. foaks always looking for a jump.
I worked with JJ. Lander who invented the dry charge battery for Delco, and the maintence free battery for them too. Look in the electrical engineering hand book and you will find him. He told me of the problems producing the dry charge and how the maintence free was such a superior battery. Interisting guy. Post Hole Digger (read PHD - his words not mine) Chemist with a rank of a two star general. We used to have pizza and play Uker on the 20 ft mahogney confrence table at lunch. A real nice guy.

[Scott Butville]

Re: Restoration/Antique batteries??? Judging quest

I would think the undercoat would fill-in the date stamp. Did you have to restamp it or how did you deal with it?

[Marc W.]

Re: Restoration/Antique batteries??? Judging quest

You put a small square piece of masking tape over the date stamp,around the pos.and neg.posts,and around the six fill caps.

[Brad K.]

Re: Restoration/Antique batteries??? Judging quest

Jim,
No offense taken! But everything I said is currently what the NCRS is currently using as Judging Guidelines for batteries. And it goes much farther than that for almost any component on a Corvette (and you won't find the rules written down anywhere) Dem's da rules! Actually, a Top Flight Award is fairly easy to achieve. When you get into Duntov, Triple Crown or other higher level NCRS awards....that's another story. That's when it gets DIFFICULT! I don't LIKE it but what are you going to do? NCRS has GOT to make it more difficult or everybody would get them!

It's kinda like a bell-shaped curve. Top Flight is in the middle at the peak. Duntov and other higher awards are to the right, more difficult, with fewer people achieving them. If you want to play the game, you've got to pay the price (I'm sure that statement will rattle some cages!) If you are going to CREATE a car that will take all the prizes, then it will COST you! Playing the NCRS game is not for the faint-at-heart!

I think I will stop at Top Flight !! I simply can't afford it any more!
Brad

[Jim R.]

Re: Restoration/Antique batteries??? Judging quest

Thanks brad that sounds aok