C3 1970 Dash bracket

[Dick W.]

Re: courtesy light bracket

I do not think there were ever two courtesy lights installed, and I have crawled under a lot of these dashes in judging. The bracket Jim pictured should hold the courtesy light and odometer reset. I don't know what the extra holes are for. Mine was hanging by one screw only, and I thought it was a Bubba add-on until I looked at original cars.

I have seen a few lights installed on the left kick panels. It may have to do with addition of air conditioning, and GM just using one bracket for all cars. I know the right courtesy light is not on the panel in AC cars because duct work obscures it. This is explained in the JG. We also said in it that the left light is in a bracket just above the hood release handle. Maybe we need to look at that sentence again.

The large center knob in the center of the wiper/headlight override panel is not chrome. It is entirely black plastic, and originals do not have the stainless center that reproducitons do.

[Dick W.]

Re: addition to last post

I think the original purpose for the wiper override knob was to allow the changing of wiper blades. That is the only way the wipers will not recess when turned off.

[Terry M.]

Re: But...I've Been Wrong Before...

Chuck -- no one said there are two courtesy lights on the driver's side. There are two locations for it in the early 1970 cars -- see my post of Thursday, 22 March 2007, at 9:35 a.m. earlier in this thread, but it is installed on the kick panel forward of the hood release, as the TIM&JG states. We probably should update the JG for the later cars, but that would require us to determine when the location of the driver's side courtesy light location changed.

The owner's manual will tell you that the windshield wiper on/off switch under the steering column is to shut off the wipers while they are on the windshield so the inserts can be changed. An added use was also to re-attach the passenger side windshield washer tubing when it comes off, but the owner's manual is silent on that use.

They also should have mentioned that turning off the engine with the wipers on the windshield without turning off that under-dash knob will leave power to the wiper/washer relays and can be the cause of fire in unattended Corvettes.

I have got some pictures. Jim should be rewarded for posting his complete email address in public. I hope he has good spam filters.

[Jim K.]

Re: But...I've Been Wrong Before...

Thanks Terry, my company e-mail has some pretty good filters so I don't get too much spam (actually one a day is too much ). Here are the pictures (one at a time). I see what I am supposed to have and seem to be missing the wiper bypass knob and associated wiring. Quite interesting... here is #1 pic from Terry (thanks Terry)
Jim

[Jim K.]

Re: But...I've Been Wrong Before...

Top of this photo in the middle you can see the kick panel mounted courtesy light, just above the bend in the e-brake cable... courtesy of Terry (thanks!)

[Chuck S.]

Re: But...I've Been Wrong Before...

"Chuck -- no one said there are two courtesy lights on the driver's side."{/i]

I sure you don't consider Jim "no one", but I was responding to this statement from his post immediately before mine:

"Does it make sense to have three courtesy lights (two kick panels and this one)?

He was responding to my comment about the late 70 AIM showing a courtesy light in the bracket shown. Actually, if I had read your first post instead of starting in the middle of the thread, I would have known that the question was answered fully on the courtesy lamp...running change in 1970; early 70s (and late 69s probably) on the kick panel. Further, there seems to be consensus that the odometer reset cable on a bracket designed for, and later to receive, a courtesy light.

[Terry M.]

And...I've Been Wrong this time too...

Sorry Chuck, I've been trying to follow this thread -- but I forgot some of it. Regardless who made the statement, it doesn't seem logical, but they did have multiple positions for the curtsey lamp. You are right about the 1969, and maybe earlier being like the early 1970. I’ll have to drag out those AIMs to see what they have. This whole courtesy lamp business has me wondering if AC/non-AC has anything to do with it. Maybe it is different than early/late design changes.

And your wiper over-ride knob is chrome? I know the rear window defogger knob is chrome, but the over-ride knob being chrome is a new one on me. But then I haven't been in as many interiors as Reba.

And here we are on the 5th edition of the 1970-72 TIM&JG and we have another suggested revision to get to the bottom of. Who said that job will ever be finished?

[Roberto L.]

Re: But...I've Been Wrong Before...

Chuck, my car doesn't show any light in the odometer bracket, only the lights in the kick panels (LH, RH). I always scratched my head looking at that hole. Or a previous owwner deleted the lamp or its a 68/69 carryover. I think it is the late... I see no other wire. But I could be wrong.

Regards, Roberto, NCRS #30019, RMC

[Chuck S.]

Re: And...I've Been Wrong this time too...

"This whole courtesy lamp business has me wondering if AC/non-AC has anything to do with it. Maybe it is different than early/late design changes."

Actually, the AIM (UPC C60, page E3) shows a difference in the courtesy lights with AC, but the difference is on the passenger side rather than the driver side...the courtesy light is screwed to the fiberglass HVAC housing under the dash instead of the kick panel. Without AC, the RH courtesy light is mounted to the top rear screw that secures the kick panel (UPC 12, page B3).

If you believe the 70 AIM (again, this is the late year end edition), the driver side courtesy light location should be the same for both AC and non-AC. The AIM (UPC 12, page B3) clearly shows a bulb and wiring labeled "Instrument Panel Wiring Harness" with a broken line to the reflector end of trip odometer bracket. Incidently, the latest date on this drawing is 4/21/69...we've talked about how long it took a revision to get into production, and I believe it was months.

Some AIM pages that illustrate behind the driver side dash pad area seem to show a simple angle bracket at that lcoation. That's why I asked Jim if he knew if the driver side dash pad had been replaced. It would be interesting to see what kind of brackets 68s have on them.

"And your wiper over-ride knob is chrome? I know the rear window defogger knob is chrome, but the over-ride knob being chrome is a new one on me."

No, I'm pretty sure it is as you and Reba say. I didn't mean to say it was completely chromeplate metal...I thought I remembered some combination of chrome trim and black plastic, but you know how that goes. The picture in Dobbin's book appears to show a shiny disc on the bottom surface of the early 69 knob, but it clearly isn't in your picture.

[Chuck S.]

OK...Found My Wiper Over Ride Knob...

Fully 100% shiny black plastic.

[Terry M.]

Re: And...I've Been Wrong this time too...

Thanks for looking in the AIM Chuck. It's all very interesting stuff.

[Dick W.]

Re: And...I've Been Wrong this time too...

As best we can determine, the knob with the stainless center is a service replacement. They have been seen for sale as NOS in GM parts boxes. All known originals we ahve seen are entirely black plastic.

Is the the bracket a carry-over from 1969? Not likely, my car is a 1972 and has the same bracket. I have seen it on numerous 1971s and '72s. I believe the bracket was probably used from 1968 through at least 1976 or 77.

[Chuck S.]

It Would Be Easy To Check...

"Is the the bracket a carry-over from 1969? Not likely, my car is a 1972 and has the same bracket. I have seen it on numerous 1971s and '72s. I believe the bracket was probably used from 1968 through at least 1976 or 77."

There has never been an argument about the bracket being used later...my interest is when did it start. If Jim's dash pad has not been changed to a later version, the bracket is shown in his first post photo. There seems to be evidence that the courtesy light didn't make it into that bracket until sometime during the 70 model year...exactly when, I don't know, but I believe my own car had it in that bracket. Further, I can find no reference in my (late) 70 AIM that shows the courtesy light mounted on the driver side kick panel; if someone can give me a reference showing that, then yawl should be able to get some relief.

If someone with access to the 68 AIM wanted to look in UPC 12, and tell us how that early bracket appears in the illustration, we would have more insight into this question. The sheet of interest would be titled something like "SPEEDO, TACH, DIR. SIG. FLASHER, LT. SW., AND COURTESY LAMPS".

I'm betting that the bracket will be shown as a simple 90 degree angle in the 68 AIM, and will be revised to the later bracket in the 69 AIM, since it would be an end-of-year issue. I believe the "later" bracket made it into dash pad production in late 69 (see Jim's photo), but the courtesy light didn't get installed there until sometime during the 70 model year.

[Chuck S.]

Edit:

I've been thinking Jim has a late 69, but he actually has a 70. I don't know if it's early or late. This may change the interpretation of the above slightly; the appearance of this bracket in the 69 AIM may/may not be the same as the one shown in Jim's and Terry's photos.

[Terry M.]

Jim's 1970

is an early one -- #004xx -- built during the first or early in the second week of 1970 production. Earlier than mine.

Now you guys are going to make me drag out the AIMS too?
Not to drag this too far off topic, but there are two versions of the 1970 AIM.