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I've been reading articles about the major oil companies removing additives such as zinc from non synthetic oils. The reason for removal is due to these additives harming catalytic converters. The rumor is withou these additives the current oil formulas will harm the cams in older engines. What is a good quality oil to use in older original 427 engines that have not been rebuilt?
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Re: Oil Type for Big Blocks
Rodney scrool down to Mondays posts oil delimna and you will get your answer. In the archives you can research Duke's posts on the subject and will learn imformation thay you can share with your friends. I use Shell Rotella in my 68's 327/350 original engine. I have been using 10W30. I started using it before they started making Rotella with reduced wear protection. -
Re: Oil Type for Big Blocks
Rodney, Walmart sells the Shell Rotella T in 10W-30 and the thicker stuff. Typical stations I go to don't handle the 10W-30. Truck stops have it for sure. JohnComment
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Let's stay away from brand names
I wish everyone would stop "advertising" brand names and stick to the knitting of selecting the proper API service category and viscosity range based on the lowest anticipated cold start temperature. That's all that counts. Brand is irrelevent! It seems like the entire Internet is on contract to Royal Dutch Shell.
All you have to do is READ THE LABEL! The API "Donut", which includes the service category and viscosity range is on the backside of the packaging for motor oils that have been certified to meet API service categories.
Shell Rotella is NOT the only game in town - not by a long shot!
Pick the jug from the shelf, turn it around 180 degrees, and READ THE LABEL. This is not rocket science. CI-4 Plus, CI-4, or CJ-4 is okay. SM is NOT! And don't be afraid to buy "house brands" if the price differential between those and the national brands is signficant.
Go to www.api.org and spend a few minute surfing their site. Download and print the pdf that has all the service categories. Tape it to your bathroom wall.
DukeComment
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Re: Let's stay away from brand names
Duke, You are right about the oil brand names. Trouble is in this area the truck stops and Walmart only pushing one or two brands. BUt others are available for bigger bucks. What ever floats your boat we say. Bulk oil may be OK also. I remember you saying the exact same thing numerous times over the years about this oil. You and your buddy JL said brands don't mean anything. But when you say Rotella T it sounds good. Guys know what you are talking about. Quaker State is another good one. Oops. Sorry about the brand name. Don't know any generic brand names. Just think. Your favorite LT1 cam and the diesel oil. Now you have something. JohnComment
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Re: Let's stay away from brand names
As far as the oil and brand names go Duke rumor has it that in about a year or so we may not have readily available good oil with the zinc in it. I heard that it will go by the way side for the big trucks also just like happened for the gas engines. So you better stock up on it.
Another alternative in the future might be buying racing oil from some one like Joe Gibbs racing. I'm told it is wonderful for out flat tappet engines.
Course hopefully we still will have available the good GM EOS or equiv. JohnComment
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Re: Let's stay away from brand names
John,
Around here farm supply stores have diesel rated oils for farm tractors significantly cheaper than Ro*****a even in Wal***t.
VerleComment
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Re: Let's stay away from brand names
Brands don't mean anything? Are you sure, Duke? What about the additives each bring to the table?
Or are you just referring to the low miles most get on their cars each year, like 2000 or 5000 miles per year?
My dad believed in Quaker State. We changed the valve cover gaskets on his '65 396 Impala and found lots of dirt and sludge in there.
I ran Valvoline in my 283. While it often got rather black, it never had any sludge or dirt deposited in the heads or the lifter valley when I had the intake off.
I had family that worked in a Shell Refinery. They and most of their town were big Shell believers, company loyalty you know. Almost all ran Shell oil in their engines. I saw several, going out to buy used engines to hotrod occasionally. They were usually thick with sludge.
Now I know that is all unscientific and while I can only vouch for how the oil changes were on two of these, it seems there were enough others around who felt the same way about things in the groups I ran around with.Comment
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Re: Let's stay away from brand names
If the oil was dark before an oil change, it was doing its job. Better for the crap to be suspended in the oil than stuck to the inside of the engine and between ring gaps, ring lands, insides of lifters, etc. Some oils naturally started with more sulfer in them than others depending on origins. Sulfer is considered a negative ingredient. I believe low sulfer, low ash oil is good. I am not an expert though. If something is sporting an API label, it means it meets that requirment regardless of manufactures name. Remember, detergent package and period between oil change effects internals also. Take care, TerryComment
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Re: Let's stay away from brand names
I'm trying to get people to look at the API service category and buy oil on that basis, not brand name.
For a given API service category and SAE viscosity renge all oils have approximately the same base stock blend and the same additive package because they all have to pass the same rigorous lab and field tests, and manufacturers want to do this at the lowest component cost. If brand X has .01 percent more ZDDP than brand Y, it's not significant. Pretty much everone reaches the same "formula" to achieve the desired API category certification.
Brands spend tens of millions of dollars a year trying to differentiate their products through advertising. That's Marketing 101, but the truth of the matter is that for a given API service category and SAE viscosity range there is not a dime's worth of difference between them.
That's why brands stay away from discussing API service category, and just hype quadruple super duper oil that will allow your engine to travel to the moon and back ten times.
It's all BS!
If you want to take a deep dive into Group III versus Group IV versus PAO base stocks, there is plenty of technical information on the API web site and across the Web, but most guys will get bleary eyed with this stuff in less than a minute, and it's not necessary for car owners to understand all this geeky ChemE stuff. All they need to understand is API service category and viscosity range and what is the best current service category/viscosity range for their particular application, be it a vintage or modern a car.
DukeComment
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Re: Let's stay away from brand names
As long as it has the API "Donut" with SAE 15W-40, CI-4 Plus, CI-4, or CJ-4, I see no reason not to use in in a vintage Corvette as apposed to a more expensive "brand name".
DukeComment
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Re: Oil Type for Big Blocks
OK, I will set up my butt to be kicked. I don't like 15W-40. I use 10W-30 normal dinosaur oil (actually GM Goodwrench) and add 115ml (40z) of this. Full of zinc and phosphorous. Works for me.
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Re: Let's stay away from brand names
Let's deal with facts and leave the rumors to the Corvette Forum.
CJ-4 has slightly reduced ZDDP, but better oxidation resistance than CI-4. IIRC CJ-4 limits ZDDP to about .10-12% versus up to about 0.15% for CI-4, and back when oils were dual rated for both spark and compression ignition applications, such as SE/CD back in the seventies, ZDDP content was about .10 percent. SM is no more than .08%.
CJ-4 is perfectly adequate for vintage engines with flat tappet cams, even if they have dump truck valve springs and idle all the time.
There is no need to stock up on CI-4. It will be available for some time to come because off-road diesels that still use high sulpher fuel need it, but distribution may become more limited as the market shrinks.
There is no need to "stock up" on CI-4, and I think anyone who does is foolish. CJ-4 is fine for vintage engines - certainly much superior to the oils they lived on for their first 20-50 years and 200K miles.
DukeComment
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Re: Let's stay away from brand names
Terry, You letter is well put. Of course brand names mean something. We are taking about our Corvettes worth a ton of cash and skimping on brand name oil to save a buck doesn't sound like good cents (sense). But to each his own. I prefer Shell Rotella and good old Quaker State, etc. to off brand names. Point of the discussion anyhow was not brand names so much as it was getting some quality oil with zinc in the oil. That's why I don't enjoy this board much anymore. Too many opinionated people trying to run it. John DeGregoryComment
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Re: Let's stay away from brand names
Personaly I am only concerned about the engine in my C3 apparently the OIL companies are not really seriously concerned about vintage engines-- at least from what I have observed.
I will be looking for oil with phosphorous and zinc and rated C1 and indicated ZDDP. Trade names- ya we might put them out of business, since when have oil companies been concerned with appropriate behavoir? tomComment
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