Your thoughts on this L71 stamp pad please

[Greg L.]

Anyone want to venture a guess on wheather this pad is original or not....

Is there any place that I could send this pic to get a honest "appraisal"?


Thanks.

Greg Linton
#45455

[Joe L.]

Re: Your thoughts on this L71 stamp pad please

Greg-----

Yes, Al Grenning. My opinion is that the stampings are original.

[Duke W.]

Looks like "typical production" to me *NM*

[Duke W.]

Re: Looks like "typical production" to me

Don't tell All that Joe and I gave it a "pass". We would not want to unduly influence Al.

Duke

[John M.]

Re: Looks like "typical production" to me

The IR looks a bit fishy, kinda wavy like done by hand maybe?

[Chuck S.]

I Think I Would "Pass" Too...

Oh...Yawl said you would pass the stamps as being genuine!

Actually, I don't like a couple of things, BWDIK about big blocks:

(1) Broach marks are distinct on the VIN derivative end, but machine stamp end has no discerable broach marks that I can see. Character of the pad finish changes just about in the middle; looks like the lower end has been beaten with a hammer. I would expect the pad finish to weather uniformly.

(2) If machine stamps were "gang stamped" on big blocks, then this one looks suspect. Bottoms of characters are NOT on the same line. Now, if some big blocks were hand-stamped, then I would have to go back to worrying about the pad finish.

[Joe L.]

Re: I Think I Would "Pass" Too...

Chuck-----

It's very common on big blocks for the last character of the suffix code to be "offset". Apparently, all but the last character were gang stamped; then, the last character was done as a single character stamping. I understand how this could be done (i.e. most big blocks of any given model year had the same first character of the suffix code), but I've never understood why it was more efficient for them to do it this way.

Anyway, I would be WAY more concerned about an engine code that DIDN'T have the last character "offset". Of course, by now, most re-stampers know of this "feature", so, just because the last character is offset doesn't mean the stamping is original. Also, even if the stamping is "straight" does not mean the stamping is non-original. Some were "straight", either because they were all gang-stamped or because the guy that single stamped the last character happened to get it "just right".

[Joe L.]

Re: Looks like "typical production" to me

Duke-----

I certainly hope that Al isn't influenced by my opinion. Stamp pads and stampings are FAR from an "area of expertise" for me. This is an area that's just never held a significant interest or fascination for me. So, I could probably be "easily fooled".

[Duke W.]

Re: Looks like "typical production" to me

It was just a tongue in cheek comment, Joe. I, too, do not consider myself to be a stamp pad expert, but one can take Al's opinion to the bank.

Chuck raises some interesting points. Photos often don't show the whole story, and only personal viewing from different angles, sometimes with artificial light, can reveal the true patina of the pad.

There do appear to be "hammer marks" on the lower part, but maybe this is just lighting. Also, there appears to be a bit of corrosion, which is not uncommon, and I would not expect the corrosion to be uniform unless the pad was carefully maintained (periodically cleaned and treated to a preservative) over the years, which is rarely the case.

If anything, I expect a 40 year old pad to look a little "knarly".

Duke

[Chuck S.]

Stamp Pad Expert??!!...

I thought Greg asked for opinions!

I agree, it could look at lot gnarlier and still be a completely original pad. Uniformity is the key...it makes me wonder if a clever counterfeiter believed he couldn't duplicate the broach marks, and therefore decided to use some benign aging techniques to obfuscate the truth. It almost seems like I see a virtual line right across the pad where the broach marks end.

Not only the R, but also the T and the 0 are "below" the line formed by the 227. What I think happened is the original stamp was at a slight angle...the top of the T is further from the head than the top of the I. It was the 227 (and maybe the R) that was restamped to get the build date where they wanted. When they restamped the build date, they stamped the characters as if they were parallel to the end of the head. The result was the T0 now appears below the stamp line, but I believe those characters, along with the I are original.

[Rainer S.]

Re: Stamp Pad Expert??!!...

I noticed, that next to the stamped "TO227RE", toward the edge, the area is "hammered" and has absolutely no broach marks. It apears to me, that at one time, the "orig. stamped number was toward the edge. Someone "hammered" the area flat, and stamped another number next to it.
There are also circular machine marks on the left and toward the middle, but straight broach marks toward the right, where the ser number is.
The surface should be absolutely flat. I would put a straight edge across the surface, to check it, if it curves down toward the "hammered" area, I would seriously question the stamping.
This is only my observation and opinion.
Don't ask me how I know...

Rainer

[Greg L.]

Re: Stamp Pad Expert??!!...

Thanks so much for all your input so far guys.

You know I really wish that I could have taken a better picture for you guys but for what it's worth I feel this pic accurately represents the pad. I'm saying this because while I was standing there staring at the pad I was wondering why I couldn't notice any obvious broach marks on the left "hammered" side. The pad didn't look to be altered and I even ran my finger up and down it to try and detect low spots but couldn't feel any. Still I thought it was odd that that portion of the pad looked different than the other, S/N end.

As far as the tilted "R" goes, that doesn't bother me because the "L" at the end of my original suffix is tilted way more than that one...and hit far harder! As far as the other characters not being in line and the lack of broach marks at that end of the pad, I'm hoping that Al Grenning can shed some light on it for me. I sent him a link to the pad pic last night so maybe he can compare it to other pics that he has taken and give me his best guess.

[Mark #28455]

all depends upon who was stamping

I currently have over 20 BB engines in my collection (none for sale) and while some look like the last character may be out of line, a lot look like it was in line. In fact, from my small sampling, I would guess more look in line than out.

Mark