I am still trying to puzzle my way through the motor oil morass. I've gone over the archives like they are the Dead Sea Scrolls. The strong recommendations seem to be "Use CI or CJ; Don't use SM." My problem is that the highly touted Rotella CJ is also rated for SM. I am conflicted. Also, when I was in Walmart buying the Rotella, I noticed that they had a house brand of SD oil (for cars earlier than 1988) price at $1.24 per quart. Some of the gurus in this group have said that "Oil is oil". Sorry to be such a pain, but you guys have put the fear of God into me!
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Re: CJ Versus SM Oil
All oils are NOT the same as distinguished by the API service category. I'm surprised that Rotella was listed as both CJ-4 and SM. The SM spec calls out a limit on phosphorous, which limits the amount of ZDDP anti-wear additive that can be added, but my current understanding is that the CJ-4 limit is higher.
It could be that Shell was able to keep the ZDDP low enough to meet SM while still meeting CJ-4 wear tests, but I'm leary of using anything labeled SM in vintage cars. There are some new classes of anti-wear additives that are being used in the new oils, but they are not proven in service even though they help pass the API anti-wear tests. The low ZDDP new oils are still evolving new technology, and it may take a few years - until fleets get high mileage and start seeing teardowns - so see if the current new oils allow more wear. In the meantime I am sticking with the proven products from the past including CI-4.
A month ago I went to Walmart to buy some oil. Delo, Delvac, and Rotella were all labeled CJ-4, and I don't recall seeing SM on any of them, but I may have missed it.
The Walmart house brand was still labeled CI-4/SL. Guess what I bought?
I buy oil by API service category, not brand name!!!
SD is a very old spec dating back to the early seventies. It probably had a good dose of ZDDP, but the base stock may be poor relative to a modern oils because the oxidation tests have become much more stringent as the years and service categories evolved. So I'm leary of SD, but I think SG, SH, or SL is okay.
In any event, if you can still find CI-4, even in a house brand, that's what I recommend.
You can get a good education on motor and gear oil service categories and certification by doing a little surfing at:
www.api.org
Duke -
Re: CJ Versus SM Oil
Thanks much Duke, for this answer and the many of your others that I have freeloaded on. It's back to Walmart. RickComment
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Re: CJ Versus SM Oil
Since Walmart carries all three national brands - Delo, Delvac, and Rotella - can you check the API service category on all and let us know what they are.
I recall seeing that all were CJ-4, but if they also carried and "S" certfication I missed it.
DukeComment
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Re: CJ Versus SM Oil
I'm headed there in the A.M. I'll report back on any diesel-rated they have. RickComment
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Re: CJ Versus SM Oil
I love the Rotella in my 1976 L-82...the oil seems to keep my engine clean! Dont skimp on the filter either. Just my $0.02 worth...by they way Duke guided me through the land of quarts and gallons too! Thanks again Duke!
ChrisComment
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Re: CJ Versus SM Oil
I agree don't scimp on the filter, use a A-C or a Mobil 1 filter, i do not trust most other brands. TomComment
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Re: CJ Versus SM Oil
I went to Walmart and did my due diligence. Delvac, Delo 400LE, Rotella T, and Castrol Tection Extra, All 15W-40, are all rated CJ-4, SM. They had Super Tech and Motorcraft Super Duty Diesel, both 15W-40, in CI-4, but in quantities too small for even one oil change. They had quantities of Rotella SYN in 5W-40 with CI-4PLUS. Carquest had Valvoline All Fleet in 15W-40 CI-4PLUS in quarts. I ended up at Murray Auto and got two gals of Rotella CI-4 and one of CI-4PLUS in 15W-40 by pulling out every gallon they had. I really wanted 10W-30, but I now realize that it ain't gonna happen. Now I still have to deal with the oil filter issue. All I know for absolute sure is that Fram is to be avoided at all costs.Comment
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Re: CJ Versus SM Oil
Mobil one or A-C delco for your car.Comment
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Re: CJ Versus SM Oil
Thanks for the info, Richard. CI-4/CI-4 Plus should still be available for some time to come as off-road equipment that still uses high-sulphur diesel fuel still needs these past specfications, but distribution appears to be becoming thin. We all may have to ferret out a HD truck parts supplier in our area to find it, and we may have to buy cases of gallon jugs (6 jugs to the case), which is no big deal as the shelf life is easily several years or split a case with a buddy.
I know Chevron offers Delo in 10W-30, but again, you may have to order it from a HD truck parts house; 15W-40 is suitable for cold starts down to about 10F to driving in 100+ degree temps, so it should be suitable for most vintage Corvette service.
BTW, CI-4 Plus has some extra features to handle diesel soot, which is not an issue in spark ignition engines, so I am indifferent to CI-4 and CI-4 Plus.
Regarding filters, there are quality questions that have arisen in the last decade as parts manufacturing has consolidated. My current favorite filter manufacturer/brand is Baldwin. Though unknown to most consumers and even "car guys", they are a very well respected name in the medium and HD truck/heavy equipment trade. They make a PF-141 cartridge replacement, P18, and there is probably enough old equipment around that uses this cartridge for it to be available for the indefinite future.
This is an easy to use online catalog and cross reference for all your filter needs:
A HD truck mechanic buddy of mine introduced me to Baldwin about 15 years ago when I was looking for an air filter for my Cosworth Vega. Though Fram and Delco made "replacements" (and the "new" Delco number was different than the OE Delco number - probably because it was purchased rather than made by GM) they were both chintzy and didn't fit the housing properly.
It turned out that the air filter is common to a lot of old Clark Equipment forklifts and Thermo-King refrigeration units, so I bought a six-pack case of Baldwin PA640s for about 40 bucks including sales tax. I'm set for life. The Baldwin was clearly a more robust piece, and it fits the filter housing like a glove!
Then there is the Cosworth Vega fuel filter than is common to two-speed torque converter automatic transmissions used on GM coaches that date back to the late 1940s - like the ones I used to ride as a kid in Seattle. If I only knew then, but that's a whole other story...
You can pick up a case of Baldwin P18s from your new favorite HD truck parts house along with a case of CI-4 oil.
DukeComment
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Re: CJ Versus SM Oil
Duke, I think if they are going to continue to produce CI-4, they are going to have to do something about labeling. In my travels today, I was finding nearly identical packaging between CI and CJ from a number of makers, and the only difference was in the Donut, and some rather small markings on the backs of the bottles. I was sifting through some nearly identical labels when there was old and new product on the shelves. RickComment
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Re: CJ Versus SM Oil
Yes, packaging/naming rarely changes with new API service categories other than changing the API "donut" to indicate the new spec.
That's why I always admonish all to READ THE API DONUT, which is usually on the back label of the bottle or jug.
It looks like most consumer outlets are buying CJ-4, and when current stock of CI-4 is gone that may be it, so start looking for a truck/heavy equipment parts supplier. They should understand the situation and, hopefully, still stock and be able to order CI-4.
DukeComment
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Baldwin filters
Duke, your note about Baldwin filters a week or so ago must have caused a run on their supply. I ordered a case (12 x filters) from my local Baldwin supplier (Western Filters) and they are back ordered at the Baldwin plant.
Best regards,
CharlieComment
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Re: Baldwin filters
I think the same thing happened with NAPA/Echlin VC1810 vacuum advance controls a couple of years ago.
Maybe we can get Balwin to make a Delco A353 filter for us since they have become a preferred supplier for vintage Corvette and Cosworth Vega filters.
DukeComment
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SAM'S CLUB !!!
I was just at the local one yesterday and they had BOTH CI-4 and CJ-4, the CJ-4 was labelled with some hokey phrase like "low emissions"? Available in cases of 6 one gallon plastic jugs.
MarkComment
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