Fel Pro head gaskets - Joe Lucia?

[Joe R.]

I'm about to reinstall the heads on my 67 327/300. I was planning to use the Fel Pro 1003 "Permatorque Blue" gasket that has been recommended by Joe Lucia and others on this board.

I mentioned this to the guy who is doing the head work, and he said that for my application the Fel Pro 7733PT-2 gasket would be fine and would cost less. His view is that the Fel Pro 1003 is a "racing gasket" that is "overkill" for my application.

What are the differences between these two gaskets? I don't mind paying a little extra for some "overkill" as long as the overkill is appropriate to my application. My primary interest is in minimizing the chances of a head gasket failure. I am also interested in using a gasket that does not require re-torquing.

On a related note, I know that some people like to spray the head and block surfaces with copper or aluminum paint prior to assembly. I'm curious whether this is really necessary or even advisable. It seems to me that using the wrong paint might actually compromise the head gasket seal.

[Gene M.]

Re: Fel Pro head gaskets - Joe Lucia?

Joe,
I know you are interested in maximum point during flight judging. Anything other than a stamped shim gasket will be deductions. The .020 spacing to the deck from the head is easy to detect if a composition gasket is used resulting in a gap twice as much. Also color on the "blue" gaskets is not correct.

[Joe R.]

Re: Fel Pro head gaskets - Joe Lucia?

Hi Gene:

Yes, I have heard that some judges check for this, and the composition gasket may get a deduction. Unfortunately, this is one of those "points vs. reliability" choices where I have decided to maximize reliability at the possible expense of judging points.

Some people feel that the steel shim gaskets are only suitable for use with guaranteed-flat surfaces, and that even a small amount of warpage can cause a steel shim gasket to fail.

My heads have been rebuilt and are being resurfaced, but the short block is still in the car. My concern is that the block surfaces may not be sufficiently flat or sufficiently smooth for use with steel shim gaskets. I have decided to use the thicker composition gaskets to reduce the chances of a head gasket sealing failure. This carries a possible point deduction and also reduces compression slightly, but I think the added security is worth the tradeoff.

I think I can take care of the blue color problem by adding some orange paint after the heads are on, but the thicker gaskets will be detectable. Interestingly, the engine had Fel Pro 7733PT-2 composition gaskets on it before I took it apart, and it was judged that way three times without receiving a deduction for the gaskets. I guess that only some judges check for the steel shim gaskets.

[Joe L.]

Re: Fel Pro head gaskets - Joe Lucia?

Joe-----

I think that the Fel-Pro 7733PT-2 gaskets will work just fine. These things have been used by the "jillions" and rarely have a problem. I still like the 1003, though. Yes, it's more expensive, but not that much more. I've used them with 100% success. I don't recall if the 7733PT-2 requires re-torquing after run-in. Re-torquing small block heads is a real pain.

I didn't use the Permatorque Blue gaskets for the for the "ZL-1" project, though. I went with MLS (multi-layer steel). These are about twice as expensive as the Fel Pro Permatorque Blue I don't recommend them generally, however. Surface finish on block and heads is much more critical.

[Joe R.]

Re: Fel Pro head gaskets - Joe Lucia?

Thanks Joe. I think I will use the FPP-1003 because it sounds like there is no down side except for the slightly higher cost. The cost difference is small and is not an issue for me. I just want to use the most reliable part for my particular application.

As far as I can tell, the FPP-1003 and the 7733PT-2 use similar construction. Are you aware of any key differences?

Maybe the cost difference is just that the 7733PT-2 is a high volume product used by machine shops and the FPP-1003 is more of a specialty part. Hopefully the higher cost of the FPP-1003 covers a higher degree of quality in some respect.

What is your opinion about spray coating with copper or aluminum to try and enhance the gasket seal? I know that some people like to do this but I am concerned that it might cause more problems than it solves.

[Don Y.]

Re: Fel Pro head gaskets - Joe Lucia?

Joe,
Typically the permatorque gaskets are coated with a teflon type material to prevent the gasket from being stressed during the movement from heat/cool cycles of the heads and block. Spraying coppercoat on them defeats this coating that is a feature of these gaskets. The coppercoat material works with the steel shim type gaskets as it allows the adhesive to fill in minor imperfections in the mating surfaces.
Don Yesacavage

[Joe R.]

Re: Fel Pro head gaskets - Joe Lucia?

Thanks Don. I sort of suspected this. So, I presume that the Permatorque Blue gaskets should be installed with no additional coatings or sealer whatsoever.

[Joe L.]

Re: Fel Pro head gaskets - Joe Lucia?

Joe-----

I do not know the difference between the 2 gaskets. However, I thought that the 7733PT-2 was just a standard, rebuilder-type gasket whereas the 1003 is a high performance piece. I do not know what the specific differences, if any, are.

Never use any kind of sealer on any composition-type gasket. Sealer is only for steel shim gaskets. In fact, that's one of the nice things about the composition gaskets----you don't need to use messy sealer.

[Joe R.]

Re: Fel Pro head gaskets - Joe Lucia?

Hi Joe:

FYI, here is a photo of a 7733PT-2 that was installed by the previous rebuilder of my engine (circa 1988). Interestingly, the metal border around the cylinder opening is continuous between cylinders on the side in the photo, but on the other side each cylinder has its own independent metal border. Maybe it has something to do with the way they fabricate the gasket, or perhaps the gasket has a preferred side facing up.

In any event, this basic type of construction is what I thought the 1003 gasket uses. Based on your input I plan to buy the FPP-1003 gaskets for my assembly, so when they arrive it will be interesting to compare their design to the 7733PT-2.

[Clem Z.]

check the metal with a magnet to see if it is

plain steel as that would be magnetic. the more expensive gasket should be stainless steel and that would not be magnetic. GM best shim head gasket were stainless steel and the standard gasket were plain steel

[Phil P.]

Re: Fel Pro head gaskets - Joe Lucia?

hi,i lost my fel-pro tech book,but i found specs for the 1003 it is a steel core laminate with a pre-flattened steel wire with a bore of 4.166 a comp. thickness of .041 and comp. vol. of 9.1cc hopr this helps---good luck,phil

[Gene M.]

Re: Fel Pro head gaskets - Joe Lucia?

Joe,
Paint will not stick to the teflon coating on the felpro's.

If your heads are milled flat odds of block not being flat enough are just about nill in a 300 hp automatic. I always check deck and have used steel shim gaskets as original and have good results. But if you want felpro's then go for it.

[Joe R.]

Re: check the metal with a magnet to see if it is

Hi Clem:

The 7733PT-2 that I have is magnetic, so maybe that is one dofference from the 1003.

[Joe R.]

Re: check the metal with a magnet to see if it is

Hi Clem:

My Fel Pro 1003 gaskets arrived today (damaged, but that's another story), and it turns out the metal in those gaskets is also magnetic. I know that some stainless alloys are magnetic, so the 1003 gaskets may still be stainless.