General Engine Problen II

[Jim K.]

Continued from previous post...
Problem: At mid to high RPM's engine boggs down anddoes some popping and backfiring.
- What is the engine: 66 CE 327 in my 61 with Edelbrok 600 performance series carb and Petronics Ignitor 2 wire points eliminator
- What I have replaced: (in order) fuel filter; cap & rotor; coil
- What I have checked: all plug wire connections and sequence; plug condition (a couple from each side - grey, no foul); vacuum - idle 10-12kind of shaky vibrating needle; dwell through RPM range rock steady (no points); Vacuum advance and centrifical advance both working; fuel filter (in line) clear;
- What else: took top of carb off, was some sediment in each side of carb bowl, no thing big, just some fine "stuff" (cleaned it out); jets clear, pump working; no flooding that I can see when it is running; Odd thing - the two floats are seperate and the one NOT on the inlet side is adjusted to hang low and close the needle seat very early and has the word "closed" hand written on the gasket??? neither float appears to be sunk.
- What's next: back to points and condenser to see what happens... I'll let you all know... Anything else I'm missing???
THANKS for all the advise along the way to all who wrote back (including the private e-mails!!!)

[Rob Dame]

Re: General Engine Problen II

Check plug wire ohms if they check out OK blow the filter off the sending unit in the tank

[Gary C.]

Check carb for loose aluminum - had similar

experience on an Edelbrock on my '64 driver. There were some leftover aluminum edge flashing inside. I couldn't figure out what was going wrong either. My problem was on the low side - idle circuit. Would stall and require 1600 rpm to leave a dead stop. Checked everything and couldn't find a problem. My friend Chuck Anderson found a piece of flash and was able to retrieve it. Chuck said he's seen this problem on several of the "new" Edelbrock carbs. Not sure what would cause the problem at higher RPM following your check list. Will tell you from my drag racing days that it could be fuel pressure - might put an inline pressure gauge on it to make sure the output is sustained. Also, could be electrical such as plugs, plugwires, etc. Marginal things will crap out under load and work fine sitting still. If there's someone with a dyno close by that doesn't charge an arm and a leg to run for you that might be a worthwhile venture. Good luck, Gary....

[Mike B.]

Re: General Engine Problen II

Jim,

I've been away and just getting to checking the past threads. I don't know if you've found the problem yet but I want to clarify an earlier thread by another member. I also have the two-wire Pertronix system and their matched Flamethrower coil. It was hinted at but I am 99.9% sure that that coil needs full voltage (ie., it has a built-in resistor). So simply the red wire from the Pertronix points eliminator attaches to the + side of the coil as does a full 12v constant source. The black wire goes to the - side of the coil. That's it. The firewall mounted resistor becomes only for show (and a junction block) as far as the ignition is concerned.

With the Pertronix unit I don't think that the suggestion of a broken ground wire will make a difference as that works on a different principle and doesn't rely on a ground (I am going on memory here). But since your problem started suddenly then suspicion of an intermittant electrical fault could be it. I too would have next suspected the coil as failing at higher speeds but maybe it is the lowered voltage being supplied. But then again that would not have caused the symptoms to happen suddenly. Maybe the Pertronix unit took a s**t but I perfectly understand why you don't want to blindly keep throwing money at the problem. That part is not cheap.

Fuel starvation is a possibility but the burping and farting makes me think of timing; either valve train or ignition, including as I suggested earlier, a valve problem (burnt, broken spring, rocker too tight) but I know that you've visually checked them. You might go through the task of a compression test just to double check that avenue. A better test would be a leak down but most guys don't have that equipment. If you do the compression test look for plus or minus 10 psi between cylinders. Keep in mind that more busted knuckles and frustration are guaranteed!

Too bad because I just sold a complete spare Mallory sbc distributor plug wires and all that I know worked perfectly. I would have loaned it to you as a plug-and-play swap. I also just sold a 600 cfm Edelbrock which you could have tried as well. These were all "victims" of a cash-for-Carlisle ebay garage sale.

We've all been down the frustration road. I try to console myself that it is only a machine...there is a rational reason why it works or doesn't. With enough time and reasoning one will finally figure it out. But after 20 years of marriage I can safely say that it sure doesn't work that way with women!

Let me know if I can help; but remember, beer always helps!

Mike

[Mike B.]

Re: General Engine Problen II

Jim,

One more possibility after you've exhausted the other ideas...

The mechanical fuel pump may be failing. The diaphram inside may be developing pin holes and/or the internal check valves may be leaking by. At slower speeds it may be able to keep up with fuel demands but at higher speed it may not. This is a tough one to test conclusively and (gasp!) swapping it out is the usual course. You can buy a cheapo Brand X replacement over the counter for around $25. That's the easy part. The tough part is struggling to keep that &!*@ fuel pump push rod in place while trying to secure the pump in place (while on your back drinking dripping gas). Check the archives, there are a few tricks including temporarily swapping a key bolt in the area of the pump mounting boss with a longer one that will hold the pushrod in place. Don't forget to swap it back!

Did I mention that beer can be an effective mouthwash?

Mike

[Jim K.]

Re: General Engine Problen II

Hey Mike I appreciate all of your thoughts, I looked at all the old instructions from the Ignitor and coils and I have them wired according to their directions (one full voltage and one resisted - i foget off hand which one is which). I pulled the sending unit and that end is clear as a bell as far as clogs go, next is to reassemble and try with points, then warm it up and compression test if that isn't it. I am planning a trip to NAPA for an over the counter fuel pump too, for $25 or so, it's worth a shot. on the fuel pump rod, I learned of the bolt trick and the dab of grease trick in high school shop class a couple of years back ( ) What I'm hoping for is th start it and get it up on my lift to do the fuel pump thing; now that I have a lift, I don't ever want to crawl again!!!
Thanks!!!
Jim

[Jim K.]

Re: General Engine Problen II

Here's the weekend update:
Am having trouble with engine dieing out and popping/farting under load in the mid to upper RPM range (does fine in the driveway).
I have done the following in approximately the following order:
Replaced fuel filter
replaced air filter
Replaced cap and rotor
Checked timing, vacuum and dwell
Checked fuel pick up screen
Replaced coil
removed Petronix and went back to points
Checked carb bowls for blockage
checked oil level and for gas in oil and for oil in water
replaced fuel pump
This weekend ran to temp then checked valve train with slotted cover; pulled plugs and checked compression, plugs were black carbon, slight build up Compression from 1-8 was 180,185,190,195,190,195,190,195. I'm spinning my wheels but not spinning my wheels! The last thing to try is the fuel line from the tank to the pump, maybe I'll just get 10 feet of fuel line and bypass it for a check. otherwise I'm out of ideas... maybe the carbon is too much and I need to de-carbon the engine; in my Corvair days, it was advised to slowly pour a two liter "coke" bottle's worth of water down each carb at mid throttle and this would do it. Also, its a replacement 327 CE motor with Edelbrok 600 (1406) performance series carb... maybe the 61 is just jelous of the attention I'm giving the 70

[Terry D.]

Re: General Engine Problen II

Jim

Does the car start right back up after dieing? If so you can pretty much eliminate fuel as the problem. What plugs are you running? When you were checking carb bowls for blockage did you check the float level? When you checked fuel pick up screen I am assuming you checked fuel tank for unwanted material. Is there any pattern to the dieing out?
Terry

[Jim K.]

Re: General Engine Problen II

Hi Terry: Actually it doesn't die, but farts, misses and just bogs down. Yesterday's warm up trip it was hard starting after I stalled. the plugs are R44T Champion. On the floats, one was fine but the other wad set up so no fuel would directly enter the bowl and the word "closed" or maybe it was "down" was hand written on the carb gasket (Edelbrok 600 cfm #1406). tank was Eastwood pruduct sealed 5 years ago and looking inside appears clean. the patern is that it dies, boggs, looses power at the mid range of the rpms mostly noticable in the upper gears. Thanks!!!

[Terry D.]

Re: General Engine Problen II

I would have the carb rebuilt or better yet a new one is not that exspensive, hard telling what Bubba did to that carb over the years.
Terry

[Pat M.]

Re: General Engine Problen II

Jim - Is the choke opening enough to allow for sufficient air intake? I had a similar mid-RPM-range sputtering problem with the 350 in my 70, and the cause was my plugs kept fouling because of incomplete combustion due to insufficient air intake.

As simplistic as it sounds, bending my choke rod just a little allowed the choke to open more and completely solved my problem.

Good luck, Patrick Moresi #45581

[Jim K.]

Re: General Engine Problen II

It has an electric choke, but it's worth checking.. too rich, carbon, not enough air... I'll wire it open and test it, thanks!!!