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Re: 66 Muncie judging question
Do to the difficulty of safe access, transmissions aren't judged at NCRS in Flight... Standard Muncie trannies (M20/M21) had only a side filler plug. The 'Rock Crusher' version of the tranny (M22) had a bottom drain plug as it was intended for race competition use and frequent maintenance/overhaul.
Your standard tranny wouldn't be the first that was 'modified' by prior owners to include the lower drain plug 'feature'... -
Jack, you probably meant ...
to say that transmission casting numbers, assembly date codes or VIN derivatives are not judged in flight. Nevertheless, there's 25 points (15 originality, 10 condition) that has to be attributed somewhere, in spite of the difficulty of access.
(to Bill V.) Is this a transmission that you want to put INTO a '66 for flight judging ? Is your tail extension housing 3857584 ('65-70 in Corvettes) ? [you repeated the shifter sidecover # 3884685, applicable '66-'68 only]. If it's the "big tail" 3978764, you'll take a hit on cofiguration / originality, along with the large output yoke to the driveshaft (under rear suspension section). And as Jack has said, should be no drain plug in '66 (unless you have documentaion for M22). But the drain plug was standard on the 3952661 maincases ('70-up), regardless of internals. Are the shifter lever attaching method studs or bolts ('69-up). There are so many parts mix possibilities with rebuilt Muncies that it's rare to find a 40+ year old unit with all its original external components.Comment
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Re: Jack, you probably meant ...
Wayne
The tail section is 3857584 so I believe the only problem is the main case which may have been replaced after 1970. The linkage mounts with studs and nuts. Will it take the full 15 point originality hit? or will some credit be given to the correct side cover and tail housing.
Thanks
BVComment
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Re: Jack, you probably meant ...
Wayne
duh, I am in the middle of an overhaul and I just realized that there is a local speed shop with tons of old muncie parts. I may be able to trade for a case with out a drain plug,that is of the correct period.
The main case I have does not have a vin stamp which suggests it was sold over the counter.
Thanks
BVComment
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Here's my take on trans judging ...
derived entirely by reading of the TIM & JG and Judginr Reference Manual.
Probably will take some originality deduction. The JM says "based on overall degree of correctness ... could be as little as 10% for a minor variation on a non-dated or numbered simple part, to as large as 90% for an incorrectly dated, numbered and configured part"
As trans numbers cannot be considered, only other items can be judged. In your case, (no pun intended) the maincase configuration on the driver side is the same as a factory '66. The passenger side has the drain plug and the wider stamp pad found on later years. Don't know what head markings the judges look for on the filler plug, but I've seen a "W" underlined on several original '66s. Then there's the trans part # steel tag on the lower forward side cover bolt, that you'll need [Ironically, judges should accept ANY stamped #]. Elsewhere, should be acceptable bolt types and head markings. If all of these other small areas are correct, I would think an originality deduction of 20-30% would be in the ballpark.
P.S. You suspect that your "661" maincase may be an over-the-counter replacement; does it have a "CC0, or CC1, etc. on the VIN and assy stamp pad area ? (or CT0, CT1, CT2, etc. followed by a 5-digit number sequence) ?Comment
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Re: Here's my take on trans judging ...
Bill -
That makes it a warranty replacement case, manufactured in 1973.Comment
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Re: Here's my take on trans judging ...
John -- you may have internal Chev info that says otherwise, but from what I've been able to glean from on-line sources, CT3 code represents a complete transmission ASSEMBLY, and would therefore have an assembly code [ie. P_3_B_25_B (Feb 25th 1973, close ratio)]. A recent eBay sale was for an NOS "661" case w/drain, fill plugs, CC3_35956. I'm not sure if an over-the-counter (versus a warranty case) would have the same coding.
Your thoughts on this ?Comment
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Re: Here's my take on trans judging ...
Wayne -
That's correct - the "CT3XXXXX" normally indicates a complete transmission assembly, although I've seen several over the years with the "CT" prefix as loose main cases (probably parted out from complete assemblies). Most I've seen had Muncie "P"-numbers, but one didn't. I'm sure there were lots of "CT"-stamped assemblies (originally intended for 5/50 warranty replacement) in inventory when 5/50 replacement liability expired, and they all found their way to normal service replacement/over-the-counter inventory.Comment
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