lightening strike

[John D.]

Well I'm back on line. Doubt if I was missed though but here is my excuse.
August 9th around 9:30 EST my house got hit with one big noisy lightening bolt. I mean it sounded like a bomb going off. Almost killed my little dog as she was scared big time. Anyhow no structural damage (so far) but I lost two PCS, 4 Tv's and a host of little crap. And to make sure the rain gods got everything they wanted around 4:00 that afternoon round two came thru. A big mini-tornado called a micro burst took my favorite tree and trashed it. Then destroyed a lot of stuff outside. Place looked like a war zone but I was not alone. Poor neighbors had a lot more damage than me. My wallet got hurt but the roof is still on.
All the stuff you hear about surge protectors is a waste.(somewhat) I mean I have an industrial surge protector on the main panel box, PC pluged into battery backup, and that thing was plugged into another surge protector.
My poor Dell got southern fried big time. Fried the mother board and the power dirve. Luckily the hard drive was OK so the Geek Squad was able to save a lot of files for me. I was most concerned about losing all my 63 technical info as I was too dumb to back it up. Well that won't happen again.
I understand from the Geek Squad and reading that if you suspect a lightening storm coming unplug the PC box completely. Cable and plug. Like who suspects a lightening storm I thought.
Getting this new HP to work fast hasn't been any fun though. But now she is working really fast. Had to buy another router as my wireless box got fried too. I am thru with wireless. Slows the system down. Boy is this new direct hookup fast. Thanks for listening, John

[Chuck S.]

Better Move Down Off The Mountain, Jack...

Contrary to that old saw, lightning IS LIKELY to strike in the same place twice.

PS: You shudda' bought another Dell...We need to get the revenue, earnings, and stock price up...so I can SELL.

[Tom H.]

Re: lightening strike

Glad you are OK. Welcome back !

[John D.]

Re: Better Move Down Off The Mountain, Jack...

Chuck, 3rd time this house has been hit since 1971. You would think I woujld have had lightening rods by now. Don't plan on it though. I always have had Dell PCs for years. Had no problem with them. Bought the HP in a panic mode as losing the PC was like losing a friend for sure. Didn't shop around at all. Couldn't go on line to shop so just went to Best Buy. Cost of the PC itself was cheap. But by the time you add on the programs, Virus crap,etc. etc. the thing cost a small fortune. Dell had great support. But the Geek Squad is nothing to sneeze at. Good people for sure. I think some they got some of the Geek's though from the DB whatta u think??? JD

[Donald M.]

Re: lightening strike story

While we're on the suject, my house up north got struck by lightning or rather the front walkway to the house. The bolt went into the ground, traveled along the wet driveway,blew out all four (!) of my son's Cavalier tires and ECM computer and took out one of my wife's Blazer tires before travelling up the outside drain pipe into the house and thru the wiring and exited thru the outlet in my daughter's room! It took out a TV, a couple of clock radios and misc other items in the house.Most expensive were the 5 new tires we had to buy,(less than my deductible, of course). As bad as it was, we were lucky.

[Joe T.]

Re: lightening strike story

I believe you also need a surge protector on any NETWORK (dial/cable/even satellite) connections since the surge can come from any outside connection. T-1 circuits carry a potentially lethal current as a matter of course...

[Jack H.]

Surge protectors work...kinda/sorta...

As a former electrical design engineering manager, I can assure you there is nothing known to man that will protect in the event of a DIRECT lightning strike! Most surge protectors and the due diligence built into current power supplies provide some level of protection for 'near strike' situations. Understanding lightning sheds some knowledge.

During thunderstorms, free electrons in the atmosphere are generated and held in concentration zones by airborne thermal currents and their circulation. The heavy concentration of free electrons aloft presents a STRONG negative charge that's mirrored to the earth inducing an opposite charge (free electrons in the soil migrate AWAY leaving a net postive charge).

When conditions are 'just right' the two opposite sets of charge join each other to neutralize. So, you're NEVER 'struck down' by lightning...you're struck 'up' by the induced positive charge 'leaping' out of the earth to meet the airbore negative charge concentration.

The earth's positively charged current flows from a myriad of directions seeking the 'easy' way to travel (along metal lines, up the water laden root paths of trees, bushes, Etc.) until finally the pathways converge to one or more exit 'horns' to make their jump into the air. We're talking about a HUGE amount of energy presenting and equally HUGE power surge. If something(s) are directly in one of the current pathways, they're gonners...

[Philip C.]

And If you need to be on the Phone make

SURE its cordless! Phil 8063

[John D.]

Re: Surge protectors work...kinda/sorta...

Jack, I certainly learned that the hard way. When my house took a direct hit on August 9th I was amazed to see that it didn't catch fire or have serious structural damage. Although the upstairs was full of smoke from a TV frying. My brother in law at the time sold me a commercial surge protector for my panel box for a major bucks. Then I have a battery back up for the PC by the Geek Squad. And my PC was plugged into the usual surge protector crap. Well as you said the huge amount of energy paid no attention to my equipment and now it's all fried. I have a huge pile of TV's and two cooked PC's on display in my living room in case the insurance guy ever shows up.
Anyhow a couple of days ago we had another lightening storm but not a severe one. Well I went around and disconneced the Comcast cable, disconnected the cable from the modem, unplugged the Linksys router and when the storm blew over plugged everything back in. Well that didn't fly as the routers don't like to be disconnected and it burped and I couldn't get it to work. Have a 4 port router. Had to call India and a nice fellow spent about 20 minutes on the phone getting the damn thing workin again. So the next lightening storm comes along I don't know whether to let the stuff fry again or what. This summer the weather has been the pits in SW corner of PA.
Thanks for the science lesson. It leaves you rather helpless when the rain gods take over. The HP PC instruction manual says to unplug everything in a lightening storm. They don't push surge protectors like the rest of the world. They were telling the truth. Thanks, John

[Jack H.]

Bell learned from Edison....

The reason the phone line typically escapes lightning damage is due to design. When Thomas Edison first started electrifying municipalities, he routed DC from the generating plant via overhead wires to the consuming homes.

While Edison worked hard at inventing, he wasn't a book learned scholar. The big mistake he made was driving the overhead wires +90 VDC relative to ground. Then, when atmospheric disturbances created lightning conditions, the choice was taking a neutralizing charge from the earth OR from Edison's overhead wires backed by all the energy the generator had on-hand to supply.

Guess which path was favored! Yep, Edison found himself 'plagued' with lightning strike damage to his generators. That's one reason why Nicholi Tesla and other Europeans scoffed at Edison and favored AC as the preferred means of electrical power distribution (half the time it's postive with respect to ground, and negative the other half of the time, being 'neutral' overall).

So, when Bell came along with a need to run overhead wires to homes for telephony, the solution was simple. The phone line is a 48 VDC 'rail' to power the ringers in the phones, but they run the 'battery' NEGATIVE with respect to earth ground! Phone lines seldom take lightning strikes as a result....

[Alan Drake]

Re: Surge protectors work...kinda/sorta...

Hi John,
Have had many items destroyed by lightening hits. The local Senior Housing has 10 builings connected back to a fire panel - lines all run under ground. They loose part or all of the panel every year from small storms. Tried many lightening protection devices at a high cost and found its cheeper to just take the hit.
YES, YES the lightening experts will otherwise, but I have never found a way to keep it all out of electronics

Now, as for the hit at my house - lost computer and tv once: filed an insurance claim for $1800 which was paid, then bill came in for next year up $300, therefore it only takes insurance co 6 years to get all the money back and then start making more on the policy. I no longer cover the small items - big deductable!

[Jack H.]

Re: Surge protectors work...kinda/sorta...

The early C-Band satellite receivers didn't learn from telephony and bussed +12-24 VDC out to the dish for the position actuator and LNA (low noise amplifier). They were VERY prone to lightning damage!

I was dozing in my living room one afternoon when a thunderstorm passed over. The house ROCKED and momentarily my entertainment center was illuminated with a clear blue corona, followed immediately by the stentch of ozone. EVERY piece of electronics was fried (junk, don't even try to repair it).

[Larry L.]

Re: Surge protectors work...kinda/sorta...

John:
There are some things that work - worked on a lot of antennas that would take a direct hit and still work. The cost was more than a couple mountains of cash.

Storms and positive and negative charge are a bunch of rubish. Clouds can be positive or negative - its the voltage difference that counts. That is why you see stikes between clouds.

Lightning rods are essential in high strike areas.

I used to fly around the world looking for electrical storms just to fly through them. This was to test the capability of the engine electronics. We had holes in the aircraft where the lightning came into and went out of.

Tell you whole story some time.
See you in a couple of days at Carlisle.

[John D.]

Re: Surge protectors work...kinda/sorta...

Larry, Now I know what happened to you. Anyhow I own the old farmhouse next to me and it has major league lightening rods that have been on the place since the 50's. The house is taller than my residence that does NOT have the rods.
Well on August 9th both houses were hit at the same time and it sounded like a major bomb going off.Scared the crap out of my little dog. I felt bad for her. Was worrie she was going to have a heart attack.
So I got a new PC and went for the 3 yr warranty that covered lightening strikes. This house has been hit 3 times. As long as we don't get hurt though I don't care. But I do care about losing the PC as getting a new one and getting it up and running was no picnic. Big bucks too. See you in Carlisle, John

[Larry P.]

Re: Surge protectors work...kinda/sorta...

Having been in the Cash Register/POS business since before electronics, I can promise you two things. They won't always stop lightening and the equipment replacement warranty is hogwash. The vendors always find an excuse to void it.
I believe they work to some degree. A direct strike will arch right thru the protection. If you don't install one on every piece of hardware on the network, don't bother. We lost an entire system when lightening came thru a printer in the kitchen and damaged everything in the system thru the communication cables.
Larry