1965 Muncie

[Joe Ciaravino]

Thanks for the responses to my last post re:1965 Muncie of June 12th. Now that I have the trans apart, I believe I MAY have more problems (oh great-I love a challenge, and so does my wallet!).

First, some background. Before taking the car out of service, the only problem I had with the trans was that it would jump out of second gear. All other gears were fine. No noise, gear clash, etc. It was SLIGHTLY hard to shift into all gears, which I attributed to worn synchros and a bad clutch. The clutch was worn past the rivets, so a new one will be going in later. The flywheel was refaced with a minimal cut of about .010", and had minor surface cracks/runout, which all cleaned up well. The ball stud in the bellhousing was the wrong type (too short) and that was replaced with the correct part.

Inside the trans. I found all synchros (except first gear) to be moderately worn. First synchro is like new. Here's the problem(?) : 1&2 synchro/hub/sleeve assembly are the are the new type (shouldered ring-narrow hub). 3&4 synchro/hub/sleeve assembly are the old type (no shoulder on ring-wide hub).The rebuild kit (late 1965-1970) came with the new type synchro rings. All the gears on the mainshaft had minimal end play, EXCEPT SECOND GEAR (meas. @ .028"). Also,the 3&4 hub and sleeve (old type) show moderate wear on the splines. The 1&2 hub and sleeve (new type) are like new. All 6 clutch keys are the same-on the 1&2 ring, they are the same width as the hub, and on the 3&4 ring, they are about 1/8" shorter than the hub.

QUESTIONS:

1. Is the .028" end play on second gear within normal range? 2. What type of synchros are correct for this trans (May 1965). 3. Would the moderate wear on the 3&4 hub and sleeve be grounds for replacement(there was no problem with 3rd and 4th gears). 4. Should the clutch keys reach the ends of the hubs, or should they measure about 1/16" short of each end.

Remember, the car was jumping out of second.

[Patrick T.]

Re: 1965 Muncie

For what it's worth, I had a '72 Muncie, that would jump out of 4th gear when the engine was taching 3 grand and I let off the gas. I called 4-Speeds by Darrell, (he is in Hemmings) and and spoke with him and got excellent advice. Turned it was the 3-4 slider sleeve, which had endured too many power shifts. The sleeve was $80. I finished the major rebuild and no more problems. Just my 2 cents. Patrick

[Bill Clupper]

Re: 1965 Muncie

To answer your question directly, the late hub must use the late rings and the early hub the early rings. That is all that is required to swap between the early and late setup, however If I am understanding you correctly, the slider that you have that rides on the hub is the style that has the thick flabge on the short side, not the tapered flange. this is generally only used on the 3-4 assembly. I would look very carefully at the hub and the slider if you are popping out of gear, as on a Muncie that generally indicates significant wear either on the synchro engagement teeth at the gear or rhe hub and slidere itself. All of the teethe should be pointed, not round at the area of engagement. Hubs are the same in a muncie, front ant rear, and are readily avaialble, but if the hub is significantly worn, the slider is generally worn to match. I don't know where you are located, but I think you need someone with Muncie 4-speed experience (not whomever had it apart previously) to look at it for you and suggest a strategy after inspection. As a bonus, most guys who do a lot of muncie work have a bin of usable hubs somewhere that are available cheap if not free, so your cloud may have a silver liing there.