All Aluminum Versus All Cast Iron Engines

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  • Joe L.
    Beyond Control Poster
    • February 1, 1988
    • 42936

    #1

    All Aluminum Versus All Cast Iron Engines

    38 years ago when Chevrolet released the ZL-1 427 engine, it was the very first Chevrolet all aluminum PRODUCTION engine ever. It wasn't GM's first all aluminum engine, though. As far as I know, that honor goes to the small V-8 first used by Buick about 1963 or 64.

    For many years thereafter, all-aluminum engines were somewhat of a rarity in GM cars and trucks. Eventually, aluminum heads began appearing on more Chevrolet and GM engines, but cast iron blocks still "ruled the day". Not anymore, though. Now there are lots of all-aluminum GM engines. In fact, they're the rule rather than the exception. As a matter of fact, GM only has a few all cast iron engines left in their "portfolio". These are as follows:

    1) 5.0L and 5.7L Gen I small blocks for marine, industrial and SERVICE. All of these are manufactured at Toluca, Mexico;

    2) 4.3L V-6 for trucks, marine, industrial, and SERVICE. This is the 5.7L V-8 with 2 cylinders "lopped off". It will be discontinued for truck PRODUCTION applications very soon;

    3) 3.8L V-6 for limited use in PRODUCTION cars and SERVICE. This is the old Buick V-6 which dates back to 1964. It has only a short time to go, too. At the end of the 2008 or 2009 model year, it will be discontinued and its manufacturing plant closed forever;

    4) 8.1L V-8 for trucks, marine, industrial, and SERVICE (as well as some 7.4L for SERVICE only). This is the current incarnation of the Mark IV Chevrolet big block introduced in 1965. It hasn't been used in PRODUCTION cars since 1975. In fact, for 2007 and beyond its only truck applications are 4500 and larger MD and HD trucks. It's no longer available in pick-ups and SUV's;

    5) ONE other all cast iron engine. Does anyone know what it is?

    So, what was once common is now rare and what was once rare is now common. In a few years, there won't be ANY all cast-iron engines offered in ANY GM passenger car or light truck.
    In Appreciation of John Hinckley
  • Duke W.
    Beyond Control Poster
    • January 1, 1993
    • 15229

    #2
    Re: All Aluminum Versus All Cast Iron Engines

    How 'bout Iron Duke? Is it still made for industrial applications (like forklifts)?

    Last time I checked - about the ten years ago - Cosworth still had some 16V DOHC head kits for it. I think they won an IMSA GTU championship for Pontiac (Fiero).

    Duke

    Comment

    • Joe L.
      Beyond Control Poster
      • February 1, 1988
      • 42936

      #3
      Re: All Aluminum Versus All Cast Iron Engines

      Duke-----

      No, it's not the "Iron Duke". The "Iron Duke" is, mercifully, out-of-production. I don't even think that any major parts for it are currently being manufactured by GM. So, any such parts that might still exist in GMSPO inventory are old stock.

      The "Iron Duke" might have found some success in highly modified form for some racing applications, but it was one of the most "anemic" and rough running engines that GM ever offered for the street.
      In Appreciation of John Hinckley

      Comment

      • John M.
        Expired
        • January 1, 1999
        • 8

        #4
        Re: All Aluminum Versus All Cast Iron Engines

        Joe,

        Aren't the 4.8L and 5.3L V8 truck engines still cast iron?

        Regards, John McGraw

        Comment

        • Duke W.
          Beyond Control Poster
          • January 1, 1993
          • 15229

          #5
          Re: All Aluminum Versus All Cast Iron Engines

          Yes, it certainly was a toad in production form. The last car my late parents had was a '84 Chevy Celebrity Station wagon (which followed a '76 Vega wagon after a lifetime of Pontiacs and Cadillacs) It had a TBI version of Iron Duke that I think was rated at 95 net HP. It was okay around town, but could barely pass an 18-wheeler on the highway. It was also rough and noisy.

          Fortunately, most of their driving was pretty local by then. I remember even telling my mom to take the "long way" home when she went to the store so the engine would be fully warmed up, but it still needed a muffler after only five years and about 25K miles.

          At least it was reliable, and it shared a lot of tried and true internal parts with the SB and I-6. Despite the infrequent use and short trips, it still had the OE battery when I sold it from their estate in 1993.

          That engine started life as the base engine for the original Chevy II in the early sixties. Then all the tooling went to GM Brazil in the late sixties or early seventies, but when the Vega engine developed a bad reputation, GM brought the tooling back to the US and used it in H-bodies - coining the name Iron Duke to distinguish it from the aluminum block Vega engine - until they went out of production, and continued to use it in other bodies with an upgrade to TBI well into the eighties. IIRC at some point in the "dark era" when GM was struggling with cost, emissions, and fuel economy there were even proposals to use it in the Corvette, but, thank God, that idea never took flight.

          I think it continued to be offered as an industrial engine for some time after it was dropped from passenger cars. It had plenty of power for forklifts and was cheap and reliable.

          Duke

          Comment

          • Dick W.
            Former NCRS Director Region IV
            • July 1, 1985
            • 10485

            #6
            Re: All Aluminum Versus All Cast Iron Engines

            6.2L used in pickups????
            Dick Whittington

            Comment

            • Jack H.
              Extremely Frequent Poster
              • April 1, 1990
              • 9893

              #7
              I seem to remember....

              Pontiac Tempests being offered with all aluminum engines in the same '63-64 timeframe... A friend down the block from me bought one new and was CONSTANTLY taking it to the shop during the car's warranty period and finally sold it off writing the off as being totally unreliable (problems most notable during cold winters in Detroit)...

              Comment

              • Duke W.
                Beyond Control Poster
                • January 1, 1993
                • 15229

                #8
                Re: I seem to remember....

                The 215 CID aluminum V-8 (which had iron liners) developed a reputation for corrosion. Antifreezes back then didn't have as good a corrosion inhibitor package as today, and with people's typical lack of basic maintenance including coolant changes...

                The most interesting verison had high compression and a low boost turbo rated at 215 gross HP and used "Jetfire fluid" (a water-alcohol blend that was injected during boost) that had to be replenished quite frequently if you had a heavy foot, but I think this version was only available in the Olds F-85. I saw a F-85 station wagon with the 215 turbo at some auction a few years ago. It was really a nice example.

                GM sold the tooling to Britich Layland in the late sixties and the engine with SU carbs and later EFI was used in Rover sedans, the Triumph TR8, and other BL models for some time afterward. There is also a junkyard is Seattle that developed a kit to install this engine in Vegas. Even though the engine was physicially larger (depending on version as the Buick version used different heads than the Olds version, which Pontiac also used) than a SBC, it was a lot lighter - not much heavier than the aluminum block/iron head Vega engine.

                Duke

                Comment

                • Joe L.
                  Beyond Control Poster
                  • February 1, 1988
                  • 42936

                  #9
                  Re: All Aluminum Versus All Cast Iron Engines

                  John-----

                  Only the blocks, not the cylinder heads.
                  In Appreciation of John Hinckley

                  Comment

                  • Joe L.
                    Beyond Control Poster
                    • February 1, 1988
                    • 42936

                    #10
                    Re: All Aluminum Versus All Cast Iron Engines

                    Dick-----

                    The 6.2L used in pick-up trucks is all aluminum.
                    In Appreciation of John Hinckley

                    Comment

                    • Dick W.
                      Former NCRS Director Region IV
                      • July 1, 1985
                      • 10485

                      #11
                      Re: All Aluminum Versus All Cast Iron Engines

                      Well I learned something new today. That makes for a good day. Thanks Joe
                      Dick Whittington

                      Comment

                      • Joe L.
                        Beyond Control Poster
                        • February 1, 1988
                        • 42936

                        #12
                        Answer: The Other All Cast Iron GM Engine

                        OK, looks like no one has come up with this, so here it is. Duke was actually on the right track. The other all cast iron engine which GM still manufactures is the 3.0L 4 cylinder engine which is manufactured for marine and industrial use. This engine is a very popular engine for marine applications and is "marinized" by Mercruiser and others. It's also used for a lot of smaller commercial fishing boat applications (I'll bet a lot of these engines power the lobster boats that go out and get the crustaceans that I like so much).

                        This engine has been manufactured by GM for "eons". I'm not sure of its exact "genealogy", but I think that it may be loosely based on the old Chevrolet 153 4 cylinder used in Chevy II's from 1962 to 1969. Actually, I don't think that the Pontiac "Iron Duke" was based on that engine. The head configuration of the two engines is completely different. Also, the block configuration is substantially different. For instance, I believe the Chevrolet 153 had 2 side freeze plug holes whereas the "Iron Duke" had 3. The bore and stroke configuration was also different.

                        In addition, there are very few parts which interchange between the old Chevrolet 153 and the "Iron Duke". The engines did share the same bore spacing, though. However, the Gen I and II small block V-8's share the same bore spacing as the Gen III and IV small blocks, yet there is no other commonality between the engines.

                        The 3.0L has the same bore size as the "Iron Duke", but it has a much longer stroke. As far as I know, the 3.0L as it's currently produced, was never used for any passenger car application.

                        Who knows? It might end up being the last all cast iron engine that GM produces.
                        In Appreciation of John Hinckley

                        Comment

                        • Mike McKown

                          #13
                          Re: Answer: The Other All Cast Iron GM Engine

                          I think the marine version of the 4 cyl. Chevy II engine has a taller block deck than the car application. Sample size of one, the passenger engine will not push a boat nearly as well as the marine version.

                          Comment

                          • Clem Z.
                            Expired
                            • January 1, 2006
                            • 9427

                            #14
                            Re: Answer: The Other All Cast Iron GM Engine

                            this marine engine head was used in the NASCAR 4 cylinder division because the head was much better flowing than the stock iron duke head

                            Comment

                            • Grant M.
                              Very Frequent User
                              • September 1, 1995
                              • 448

                              #15
                              Re: I seem to remember....

                              Duke,

                              I think I read back in the mid-70's (during the gas "crisis") that GM had approached British Leyland to buy back the rights to the (3.5L aluminum V-8) as a quick route to improved fuel economy. Apparently, B-L declined to sell the rights back, but offered to supply engines to GM--an offer that the General declined; I guess the spectre of assembly lines full of cars awaiting engines during a typical and frequent British labour dispute (strike) was enough to put aside that idea...

                              Also, I have a vague recollection of reading that the 151 CID "IronDuke" was essentially one cylinder bank of a Pontiac V8; which one, I don't know--could that be true?

                              grant

                              Comment

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