R12: To convert or not on a C3?

[Eric F.]

It's time to complete the A/C system on my 75 convertible. I installed new hoses and comppressor. The other components were individually cleaned and checked. I'm told the system can be charged with 134 and it can't be detected on the judging field. Is that true?

I've also been told that 134 doesn't get as cold as R12 but the difference is negligible. There is an A/C shop in the Seattle, WA area that will install R12 for $80.00 a pound; at 3.5 pounds it will cost $280.00 just for the R12. Is it worth the $$$? The money isn't the big issue but I'd hate to through it away if the system fails. I doubt we will put more that 2000 miles a year on this car.

All things considered what seems to be the best route to take?

Thanks in advance for your information and suggestions.

[Dick W.]

Re: R12: To convert or not on a C3?

You are at the point that you should convert to R-134a. You have had a major catastropic failure. 134 will cool within a degree or so of what 12 did. The AC problem with most C-3's is the lack of air flow in the passenger compartment. If you can get the air flow to where it should be, you will not notice the difference in temp.

[Lyndon S.]

Re: R12: To convert or not on a C3?

Legally , they should put some type of different fittings on to accept the new style R134a. And a sticker saying what refrigerant is in the system. Now whether they do that or not is dependent on the shop. I would say stick with R12 in a R12 system, I have never like the conversions. Sure others on this board will say they do, but I live in a clement where I use a AC year round.

And for all you guys that have a R134a system, better start stock piling some back soon. The Europeans will soon ban R134a by 2011 in the cars sold in Europe. And you can bet that this old great country will also ban it to. Cause we can not let the rest of the world get ahead of us on global warming.

Kelly

[Duke W.]

Re: R12: To convert or not on a C3?

Most of the industry professionals I've talked to - like makers of A/C servicing equipment - recommend sticking with R-12 as long as it is available and prices have recently come down because there is still lots of it out there, but ever decreasing demand. I was quoted $48/lb recently by a local shop (LA) that still services R-12 as I have two R-12 cars. And I think their R-134A price was $34/lb - not a huge difference.

Then there's the fitting issue. I don't know of anyway around it.

A lot of people jumped the gun converting to R-134a, and some have even converted back.

Duke

[Jack H.]

I'm not so sure...

that it's 'impossible' to tell the difference between an R12 and R134 system on the judging field. When you change refigerants, you typically have to adjust the system fill level based on the specifics of the refrigerant you're replacing the original R12 with. That means the volume in the system is slightly different.

The older cars had receiver/dryer components that featured a 'sight glass'. This gave you visual feedback on the fill level of the system (if you see bubbles in the glass, you need to add R12). When the R12 'drop-in' replacement refigerants are used in place of Freon, the fill isn't the same and you WILL see bubbles through the receiver/dryer sight glass even though you've got the correct (but adjusted) system fill level of the non-R12 refigerant.

Maybe judges don't look for this on a simple Operations Check, but it's something I'd think a qualified PV judge should verify when a Corvette goes for a Performance Verification test....

[Terry F.]

Re: R12: To convert or not on a C3?

Dick, glad to see you made it home from Washington. It was nice to meet you. Take care, Terry

[Dick W.]

Re: I'm not so sure...

PV looks for cold air and volume of air. No sight glasses

[Don H.]

Re: I'm not so sure...

I would stay with R-12. I converted my '65 TO 134 and through the use of fitting adaptors you could not tell except for the sight glass. I was not happy with the cooling and returned to R-12. Don H.

[Mark #28455]

Get the license for freon!

Get the license to handle freon - open book test and about a $30 fee. Then just go and buy your freon for about$16 a can!

I think the tel number for MACS is (215) 679-2220

Mark

[Gary Schisler]

Re: R12: To convert or not on a C3?

Fwiw, I had a 77 Buick Electra and when the a/c system went south I paid to have the required components fixed and changed to R134. Maybe I am in left field, but that HUGE Buick cabin cooled nicely. I should add that my daughter took this car to Arizona when she went to ASU. Yes, it took a few minutes to bring the cabin down to decent temps but folks we are talking Phoenix in July. Once driven more than 3-5 minutes, the cabin was fine. This was when the difference between old and new freon was huge. The system was working fine when I sold the car a couple of years later.

Gary

[Dick W.]