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  • Chuck S.
    Expired
    • April 1, 1992
    • 4668

    #16
    Re: You can try...Yeah...But...

    Dick, that's what those "circles" at our regionals and nationals ARE...local chapter friends or old judging buddies getting together to enjoy themselves to the exclusion of most everyone else.

    It's not any different in ANY large social organization...even in a large church, the personal interaction dynamics are pretty much the same. I not telling others how to live their lives, but you have heard a couple of newer members describe the image this transmits. I have experienced it personally, so I know what they're saying is true (Sorry...there is no chapter closer to me than six hours).

    I don't think these groups or "circles" have any intent to exclude others, but that is the way it works out. In fact, it's more likely the exact opposite is true...you've seen those wild kingdom shows where the water buffalo form a circle, butts in and heads out, for protection?...The only difference in our "circles" is the southsides are to the outside of the circle.

    It's a darn serious problem that some bright, rising NCRS star needs to solve in my opinion. We don't need to even consider regulating member behaviour...we just have to come up with some way to encourage older members to meet and mentor newer members to make them feel part of this organization. Like I said, maybe a "Newbie Corral" at the hospitality suite for a start...just make sure the best food (Roast beef; other tables get cheese and crackers. ) and cheapest drinks are at that location...only rules are you have to eat it there; no take-out.

    Other organizations endure this difficulty, or handle it more or less unsuccessfully. If we can solve it, we can forget about NCRS ever drying up and fading away because of disinterest.

    Comment

    • Dick C.
      Past NCRS President
      • November 1, 1995
      • 450

      #17
      Re: You can try...Yeah...But...

      Wow, ????? Wild kingdom, water buffalos, cheese and crackers. I don't know how to respond to this message. I am going to take 2 bufferin and go back to the game.
      Dick Capello
      New England Chapter/Mid Atlantic Chapter
      Past NCRS President
      Past Region 1 Director

      Comment

      • Chuck S.
        Expired
        • April 1, 1992
        • 4668

        #18
        Sorry For The Metaphors...

        They were meant to make the discussion more understandable, not to become a focus point.

        Anyway, maybe only a half dozen of us out-spoken guys here are observing a problem; if that's true, we can all ignore it and it'll go away. Many of us are accustomed to "dealin' wid it", or have gotten over it anyway.

        Comment

        • Dennis C.
          NCRS Past Judging Chairman
          • January 1, 1984
          • 2409

          #19
          One small item that I believe has helped...

          ...with this situation is the Observor Judge program. I have met and gotten to know quite a few "new" members this way. And, once they open up, their knowledge level is often amazingly good. As I have proven in the past, I need all the help I can get.

          Comment

          • Mark #28455

            #20
            A few observations

            I live in Orlando, only a few miles from Old Town. I have tried to e-mail my chapter on several occasions - you guessed it, no reply. I was hoping to find if there were a local "get together" at a restaurant, etc but apparently other than the Winter Regional, they do not get together. When I applied for the meet, I asked twice to be involved in the judging process to some degree - you guessed it again, no reply. By the third year, I didn't bother to ask.

            As I have posted on this board in the past, If we had a tent with a grill and some hotdogs and soda or coffee, I would volunteer to help. As noted above, the rule should be you gotta eat it there and be willing to say "hi" while getting the free food.

            Mark

            Comment

            • Chuck S.
              Expired
              • April 1, 1992
              • 4668

              #21
              I Agree, Dennis...

              Getting involved in judging IS a great way to get to know experienced members (I hesitate to say "older" members! )

              As I was encouraged by others (Thank you, TM!), I encourage every member I meet to "get involved in judging". Unfortunately, there are only so many judging positions at each meet, and some selectivity comes into play...sometimes you just don't get picked. Once you are past the observer judge experience level, there just ain't much to do at these meets unless you're judging except visit with long-time buds, look at the cars, or attend judging schools to run up your "judging" credits (What's next?...a RED hat? ).

              My primary concern is the social events, hospitality suite primarily, where mingling and meeting is supposed to happen; it ain't happening in my opinion, BWTHDIK. And, stop that po' mouthin'...You ain't learned nothin' from an observer judge in, what, thirty years? You coulda' made some feel good tho'.

              Comment

              • Verle R.
                Extremely Frequent Poster
                • March 1, 1989
                • 1163

                #22
                Re: A few observations

                Mark,

                If you are interested in being an observer judge, go to the meet, track down the meet judging chairman and tell him or her. It will be a rare meet that you will be turned down if you are standing there and volunteer.

                Verle

                Comment

                • Kent K.
                  Extremely Frequent Poster
                  • December 1, 1982
                  • 1139

                  #23
                  Re: As they said in the kids movie "Fox and the Ho

                  Mark,

                  Wish we could have talked longer last January at Old Town, but I only saw you on Saturday (or was it Friday?). When did you decide to sell the L88 and L89? Had I known before they were gone, I might have been interested.

                  I love to turn wrenches and bust some knuckles but generally leave the heavy engine, clutch and transmission work to those more experienced than me. You saw my '67 when you visited to see my '69 427/435. And, the '67 took a lot of time last January to exhibit for the advanced judging seminar for the umteenth time.

                  Believe me, I would live to see an on-line Driveline. In order for this to happen, we must be advocates for it, not shy away from it. You reap what you sew.

                  Regards, Kent Keech
                  Future Lung Cancer Survivor

                  PS ---- my NCRS number is 6201 when numbers were assigned in sequence, not as they have for the last several years.
                  Kent
                  1967 327/300 Convert. w/ Air - Duntoved in 1994
                  1969 427/435 Coupe - 1 previous owner
                  2006 Coupe - Driver & Fun Car !!!
                  NCM Founder - Member #718

                  Comment

                  • Kent K.
                    Extremely Frequent Poster
                    • December 1, 1982
                    • 1139

                    #24
                    Re: A few observations

                    Mark,

                    I don't know who you emailed about Florida Chapter events, but there are some people who just are not "computer literate" and would not have answered any email.

                    Look at the following URL for the next chapter meet.

                    Hope to see you there. I'll only be there Saturday with my new ride. My condition disallows me to spend all day judging and standing around in the sun.

                    Regards, Kent keech
                    Future Lung Cancer Survivor
                    Kent
                    1967 327/300 Convert. w/ Air - Duntoved in 1994
                    1969 427/435 Coupe - 1 previous owner
                    2006 Coupe - Driver & Fun Car !!!
                    NCM Founder - Member #718

                    Comment

                    • Grant W.
                      Very Frequent User
                      • December 1, 1987
                      • 407

                      #25
                      Re: A few observations

                      Verle, Dick and Dennis has valid points. I've been a member since 1979 and only attended 2 events in my life. One in Bend about 15 years ago and recently at Leavenworth in Sept 07 being an Observer Judge.
                      You don't know what you are missing unless you volunteer and ask questions. I'm now helping out BCNCRS chapter in Salmon Arm B.C. get started. I always wanted an NCRS chapter in B.C. and Arne has started up the chapter. I have met a lot of talented members and dedicated Master Judges offering their time and out of their pocket expense to help start the chapter. They also attend all other events at their own expenses. I even had a great opportunity to talk to Dick Whittington and other master judges at Leavenworth. All great friendly people that are more than willing to help you out in any way. So I'm glad I got off my ass and be more involved. I will continue visiting the forum and offer what advice I know.
                      I tell you its a lot of work putting up an event. Hats off to Mike Benner and Wayne Loron and the NorthWest Chapter members. I was OJ on the C3 chassies and it was hard work. I don't think I'd want someone asking me questions when we are trying to get the cars done.(time factor) It was hot and I went through 7 bottles of water that day. I never drink more than 1 glass of water per week. We did 4 cars and being short on judges I kind of knew more of the C3's vs the 2 judges that were more familiar with C2's and C4's. But I was there to help and I was glad I did it. I also learned more from the 2 judges than reading in the manual regarding point deduction.

                      Talking about socials...maybe there could be some sort of a function to get to know everyone. Make a suggestion to the chairperson at the next chapter or regional or the Nationals.....or volunteer!!!!

                      Talking about the driveline. It is not as easy as you may think. Roy has to take it from both sides from the advertisers and to the members. REMEMBER THERE IS ALWAYS TWO....THAT IS TWO SIDES to the problem. Advertisers pay good money to advertise on the Drive line. The advertisers fee pays for the printing of the Driveline and The Restorer. If I was an advertiser I would want the maximum number of subscribers viewing my ad. For example when Hemmings put their ads on line they got rave reviews.....but their subscription volume went down alot. They lost revenue from sales of the book and advertisers. So what they do now is if you want the newest ad then you have to be a subsriber and you pay for it. NCRS driveline may have to do the same thing to protect the advertisers. And for 35.00 NCRS membership per year that is chicken feed.
                      Talk about integrity. NCRS does the best for its members bar none. Take a look at the current Driveline and do you see an advertiser selling "pullies" and smog related products. Roy heard and listen to what the members are saying. Don't think he doesn't give an Owl's excrement of what is going on.

                      Regarding the delivery time of the Driveline. Well if NCRS owned USPS then maybe we'll get it on time. But the delivery system is up to the USPS, we can't control that. How about mailing through Canada post??? Well it'll be a further 2 months in getting the driveline. USPS is pretty fast.

                      Also if any member has some restoration projects or restoration techniques then submit it to The Restorer. They are always welcoming new stories.
                      Well this is the longest post I've ever done but its my opinion and 3 cents worth and I hope we all can get a long. It just takes time and effort on both parties to make a great NCRS membership. Thanks for listening. Grant

                      Comment

                      • Loren L.
                        Extremely Frequent Poster
                        • April 30, 1976
                        • 4104

                        #26
                        Ladies & Gentlemen: I do NOT attend

                        meets with the regularity that I once did - I now find that my wife's list of "Things I must do" sometimes precludes it; others are just too far away, etc.
                        But I REALLY get tired of these tirades about "Well, I showed up at the meet and the USC band was NOT there to meet me." and a subsequent descent into snobbery, cliques, etc. You have the EASIEST CONVERSATION OPENER IN THE WORLD - YOUR CAR OR THE MODEL OF THE CAR YOU WOULD LIKE TO OWN. USE IT!!!! TALK TO PEOPLE ABOUT IT - ASK QUESTIONS ABOUT IT. BUT BE SMART ENOUGH TO KNOW THAT DURING THE MIDDLE OF JUDGING, THE OWNER MAY BE A BIT PREOCCUPIED.
                        The first meet that I was going to attend was, I believe, 1978 in California. It was cancelled. Can't remember "why".
                        The first meet I actually attended was San Mateo in 1980. It MAY still be my favorite - if it's not, it would be at least a contender. ZAD, a Grand Sport chassis in the lobby (with the wrong size carbs, according to ZAD) good tech session and the ability to meet and greet.
                        I think I'm correct when I say that they judged MORE cars at that event then ever before - the # 52 sticks in my mind - and it might be interesting to a number of folks that TWELVE cars received "Top Flight". The philosphy of the NCRS judging rules was still developing - for example, you got FULL CREDIT on tires if you had five matching with correct whitewalls, even if it was built by McCagh/Clark tire company from Nairobi, Kenya.
                        Mr Lucas had announced his repro but they were not available; my last call before leaving on the drive (in the '62) was to ask Stan if he had the tires and could find a gas station on I 5 where he could drop them off for me. No dice. The actuality of it was that I had an ORIGINAL Firestone as a spare - and scored ZERO on tires.
                        Another lifelong friendship started when a fellow approached me and said he admired the finish in the engine compartment as to color and sheen and asked "How much flattener did you add?"; it took me a while to describe Rustoleum Satin Black.........
                        Sorry, too many stories. But the point is the same, communication is a two-way street. Some people to date STILL do not want to talk to me and that's fine......I'm just not going to go easily and give up my rating as NCRS' only MINUS rated judge.
                        You can get there too - but use the same communication skills you use in your career every day - don't pretend that it is the fault of the members of the group that you are trying to join and that you are NOT part of your perceived problem.

                        Comment

                        • Patrick H.
                          Beyond Control Poster
                          • December 1, 1989
                          • 11608

                          #27
                          Re: As they said in the kids movie "Fox and the Ho

                          Kurt,

                          At least some of us were hoping to meet you in Boston.
                          Sorry you didn't attend. I was hoping I had just "missed" you somehow.

                          Patrick
                          Vice-Chairman (West), Michigan Chapter NCRS
                          71 "deer modified" coupe
                          72 5-Star Bowtie / Duntov coupe. https://www.flickr.com/photos/124695...57649252735124
                          2008 coupe
                          Available stickers: Engine suffix code, exhaust tips & mufflers, shocks, AIR diverter valve broadcast code.

                          Comment

                          • Kurt B.
                            Very Frequent User
                            • July 31, 1996
                            • 971

                            #28
                            Re: As they said in the kids movie "Fox and the Ho

                            Patrick,
                            I had all intentions of being there; even took the week off from work so I could volunteer since the location for the National is only about 8 miles from my driveway in the next town but it just didn't happen.
                            I did attend the regional at the same location but really felt out of place.
                            One good thing came out of the regional: the Meguiars wax representative showed me what a great job a random orbital buffer can do and I got some hand's on experience. I went out and bought one as a result and love it. I had previously been convinced that I would ruin the paint with one of those gadgets but he proved me wrong and I am glad he did. So is my son who convinced me to break the new buffer in by putting three coats of wax on his black Silverado with crew cab. I think I have the word "Sucker" on my forehaead but the wax job came out great.
                            Kurt

                            Comment

                            • Chuck S.
                              Expired
                              • April 1, 1992
                              • 4668

                              #29
                              Loren...You Know The Day I Decided...

                              That you were really a cool guy, and not a complete butthead? (Snicker...Now don't take any offense. ).

                              It was that evening at the 1999 Galveston regional when we NCRS DBers met for dinner at Willie G's Restrauant down on The Strand. During the evening, you hollered out and initiated a conversation with me, and looked happy to be there...that meant a lot to me.

                              Virtually everybody from the old DB was there, and we had one heck of a good time. (Dang, Dale, we miss you; and, it was only...yesterday.) One of the Houston guys (I forget his name, but then I nearly forget my own name) did us a real service, and arranged the group reservation for us.

                              I had seen you previously at the Scottsdale regional, and you seemed like a dour, unapproachable person...not someone I would be likely to try my "career communication skills" on. In your defense, you had an valuable classic on display there that weekend, and you might have been a little touchy.

                              Or, maybe you had a few theaputic drinks before the dinner in Galveston, but anyway, now I know your bite is not nearly as bad as your bark.

                              Comment

                              • Harmon C.
                                Extremely Frequent Poster
                                • August 31, 1994
                                • 3228

                                #30
                                Want to meet people at regioals or Nationals?

                                Sign up for Terry's judging seminar and you will have master judges their who woud be glad to answer questions and soon you will fit in. I have been under a lift with lots people that I didn't know but as the day goes by you have more and more friends. In this setting master judges do have time to talk.
                                When lunch break comes maybe you could go with new friends.

                                Thanks Terry for a job well done

                                Lyle
                                Lyle

                                Comment

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