Why is NCRS so cheap?

[Jeff]

Don't you guys in charge realize that every entity that believes they should have a website spends a fortune setting it up and then an even larger fortune assembling, creating, begging, borrowing and stealing its content?

It is my understanding that not only has John W. done all he has done as a volunteer but also that the content (the posts) are not only entirely free but that folks spend their good time searching out the site and suffering through "interim" sites each time it moves/crashes/gets evicted. Sure there are times when we go a little overboard with irrelevant posts, but the blend of characters and personalities here are what make the board so enjoyable. If it were just part numbers from Joe or engineering lectures from Duke it would be pretty damn boring.

It is utterly and totally disrespectful of all of John's efforts to make him keep doing things over and over each time the site bombs out. It's even more ludicrous to that think that you can continue to abuse those other guys indefinitely and still expect them to contiune to provide all the excellent but totally free content which draws new people, not only to the Board, but into dues-paying, labor volunteering membership (at what we are told is a rate of three new members per day). The prolific posters, as well as John, should be able to feel the NCRS values their participation and would wish to offer them the best forum available, if not out of common decency then, at least, for pure recruitment value.

What are the NCRS's expenses? Besides printing the Restorer what expenses does it have? Doesn't the Driveline pay for itself with advertising? Don't you charge a fee for events so they are self-supporting? Sell T-shirts, shoes and socks? How about the books and CDs? Is there income from those sales? So why is it like pulling teeth to get you to spend a few bucks doing the website, particularly the NDB, correctly? What the hell do you do with all the money? Is the NCRS non-profit or not-for-profit? Does it publish an annual financial statement? Where can a copy of that be read?

Wise up, guys, loosen up with a buck.

JP

[Jerry Clark]

Re: Why is NCRS so cheap?

Though Jeff and I have seen both sides in the past we are in absolute agreement here. There is little I could add to his well written account of the NCRS attitude regarding the board and its server. The membership numbers alone would tend to indicate that the NCRS can afford whatever is necessary to keep the board up and running smoothly . Johns efforts should be rewarded by providing the best forum available . The NCRS needs to loosen up its purse strings and get it over with.

jer

[Everett]

Re: The Future

When I joined my local NCRS chapter several years ago, I heard some of the regulars mention several times that they were worried about the future of the organization; guys getting older, newer generations not interested in the cars nor the details, etc. I consider myself to be "medium blood", not young blood in this organization. It would be a shame if we could not foster interest and keep this going strongly enough to continue to attract new young members. By this, I mean the meets, the periodicals, the friends, the cars, and the Discussion Board. I think the Internet and attractive, fun websites are the wave of the future - especially to attract young folks into the organization, and start the interest/learning curve for them. Remember that they did not grow up with these cars and we have to pass down virtually everything, including that first spark of interest in some cases. We can best do that with modern and fun methods. I think we are doing a pretty good job of that, and hope we keep evolving with time.

[Robert C.]

Re: They are NOT cheap!

Not all NCRS events make money. Some lose (10k or more). The only event the National does is the Nationals. There are paid full time and part time employees. The Eric and Gary Mortimer's,(full time), Terry McManmon, part time with the Restorer. There are bookkeeping, accountants, etc. At the shop, you have to pay for shirts,books,and all the other stuff ahead of time, whether you sell them or not. There is transportation expenses for the National Judge to various regional and nationals plus hotel expenses for some at the Nationals. There are phone bills for various officer expenses etc. This is a good size business. There isn't alot of money left over after all is said and done. But, There may be enough for us to be our own server. I'm sure it will come up if the reciepts out weigh the expenses it will get done. It all takes time , the board only meets two or three times per year.Generally the NCRS does things the right way, not the cheap way. The QUALITY of the organization speaks for itself.


Texas Chapter NCRS

[Don O'Connell #33101]

Sell the "content" to fund the server...

Since I haven’t seen that collection plate yet, I'd gladly pay for a subscription to have a CD (sent once a year) of the previous year’s NDB posts The info contained on those is “worth” a lot! I don’t need any fancy organizing of them, just include a search feature.

These folks on the NDB have saved me much time, effort and dollars just in the first year of my membership. I constantly cut and paste posts into my “personal” Vette archive.

If the posts could be assembled on to a CD in such fashion, at say $25-$50, we could fund and maintain a nice server well into the future.

My $.02

Don

[Redondo Duke NCRS #22045]

Yeah, but...

Does NCRS ever publish a financial statement? Who "owns" it? Is it for profit or not-for-profit? The domain name - dot org - indicates non-profit, but who checks. Another marque club I belong to is organized as a not-for-profit corporation under the laws of the state of Delaware. Under Delaware law the club must have an annual meeting and publish an annual financial statement. I'm curious as to how NCRS is organized and what are the legal reporting requirements.

Duke

[Gary S.]

Re: Why is NCRS so cheap?

Two cents more: I think the NCRS leadership tries and does things right for the most part. Just look at the size and reputation of the organization. The NCRS is the king of the Corvette organizations. As for the DB, a lot of members and non-members are benefiting from it everyday. I wonder how many are using the DB that are not speaking on it? The DB is a free bag of candy right now. Where can you get the quality advice, almost instantly, elsewhere? I too cut and paste certain topics to my personal file. I would pay my annual dues just for this service alone. So, if no one is getting paid to maintain this site, they should be. I think annual dues should be raised to cover it. Even at a one dollar dues increase, that is about $14,000 per year. That should help. Nice job John W.

Gary

[Juliet P.]

Can we ask the questions without the attitudes?

OK, I've kept my mouth shut (errr. fingers tied) the past few days. I understand the issues with server overloading, John Waggoner's hands being tied, the volunteer nature of the organization, the monetary issues at NCRS, and the board being at the mercy of the "big guns at the top". I'm one to always ask why, and only ever back down when I get the "real" answer. But don't you think we can ask the questions without the negativity? It just puts a bad taste on the whole thing and really takes the fun out of the board...

Yeah, the board has been pretty boring and post-less and somewhat dry and only ontopic lately without the usual bantering and joking around, but that's because we were asked to minimize it for a while... for the survival of the board. I guess we all put the survival of the board above our need to joke around. We are all adults here... (well most of us anyways).

NCRS is what WE make it. It's an organization of members and is only as good as the members allow. If we all get pissy and have negative attitudes then that is directly reflected in the organization. My 5 year old would be on time out for some of the *attitudes* I've seen in this and other threads lately!

For the record, I consider myself in the younger part of the organization (I'm 35). I joined NCRS when I found this board online. I've loved corvettes ever since I knew what one was, but I didn't have a single clue about originality, other than what I read in the glossy coffee table books and the black book. I first started out looking for a daily driver, but was bitten hard by the restoration bug. The NCRS documentation was a boon for me. I joined NCRS and did my research before I bought my '70. It worked for me! I've since joined the local chapter, and try to contribute to the organization when I can by answering Qs here, contributing to the Restorer, and offering useful suggestions rather than just complaints.

I think that the education part of the NCRS is the most important part... knowledge is what is going to preserve those truly original cars, knowledge is what is going to keep corvette values high, DOCUMENTED knowledge will live forever, so that when my 5 year old has her own corvette she'll have access to it too (whatever I haven't already taught her). Knowledge of the more senior members and judges is what keeps the younger ones interested in the organization, and frankly that's why so many frequent this board... to tap into that knowledge!!

Where else can we go to learn all these corvette details in an almost live and interactive format than the board? Sure the meets are great and very educational, but frankly my life is too busy (full time work, part time engineering grad school, and a family, including a busy 5 year old to take care of) to trapse across the country to go to NCRS meets every weekend (though I aspire to that someday!). The board lets me get my daily fix of learning in a half hour here and there... Sure, some day when I retire (2025 last time I checked) I'd love to be a judge and flit across the country looking at cars, but now that's just not in the cards! So I'll work on my '70 in my garage when I can steal a half hour here & there and dream of the day when I can affoard a C2 and a C5 (or maybe C7 by then!) to go with my C3.

Please, just keep this a fun and educational place. Sure, ask the questions you need to ask, but do it in a friendly manner. I don't think the folks making the decisions are short sighted, but I'd hate for them to feel like they're under attack from visitors to the board. We are all visitors here. Remember this is OUR organization and it is what we make it, so please keep it a fun and happy place! OK? I'm stepping down off my soapbox now.... ~Juliet


Got a '70? Click here to Visit & Join the 1970 Corvette Registry!

[Tom Freeman]

Non-Profit

I spent most of my adult life with a major non-profit agency and believe me there are tons of reporting requirements to keep that status. There are also several different types of non-profits. To be honest I have never seen the NCRS' documentation or financial statement, but I have not been a member that long. What I am used to is that the non-profit will send out an annual statement to its members each year documenting it organization and financial status. It would be nice if we got something like that or that it was posted on the web page for reference.

tom...

[Jeff]

Oops, another dressing down...

...from another overachieving "Earth Mother" who would put us all on 'time-out'. Can we post without being condescending and pedantic? If not, then I prefer attitude.

JP