Lacquer primer question... - NCRS Discussion Boards

Lacquer primer question...

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  • Greg L.
    Extremely Frequent Poster
    • March 1, 2006
    • 2291
    #1

    Lacquer primer question...

    I started looking around for a decent paint shop to paint my car sometime towards spring and I got what I thougth was a strange comment from one shop.

    My car is presently covered in red oxide lacquer primer and has been for a while but because of this primer I was told that it all has to be stripped off because nothing will stick to lacquer primer except for lacquer paint....is this true? Sounds odd to me but if it is true I guess my type of paint to use has just been made for me!


    I'm just trying to get my ducks in a row before I NEED it painted and this was a bit of a shocker for me.

    What do you guys think?

    Thanks,

    Greg Linton
    #45455
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    • John D.
      Extremely Frequent Poster
      • December 1, 1979
      • 5507
      #2
      Re: Lacquer primer question...

      Greg, The body shop can't afford to take a chance. The thinners used from "other" paint may cause your lacquer primer to lift, bubble, etc. etc. So I would agree with them 100%. They would probably have to spray sealer on your car first. I don't think you want all that extra paint buildup. JD
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        • John D.
          Extremely Frequent Poster
          • December 1, 1979
          • 5507
          #3
          Re: Lacquer primer question...

          Greg, The body shop can't afford to take a chance. The thinners used from "other" paint may cause your lacquer primer to lift, bubble, etc. etc. So I would agree with them 100%. They would probably have to spray sealer on your car first. I don't think you want all that extra paint buildup. JD
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            • Terry D.
              Extremely Frequent Poster
              • May 31, 1987
              • 2690
              #4
              Re: Lacquer primer question...

              Greg

              Why not paint it with lacquer?
              Terry
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                • Dan P.
                  Very Frequent User
                  • December 1, 1990
                  • 683
                  #5
                  Re: Lacquer primer question...

                  A LOT OF OF THE OLD LACQUER PAINT CRACKING PROBLEMS WERE BECAUSE OF THE PRIMER. URETHENE OVER A LACQUER WILL CAUSE A CHEMICAL REACTION .I WAS IN THE PAINT AND BODY BUSINEES WHEN WE CHANGED FROM LACQUER. IF URETHENE IS APPLIED OVER LACQUER IT WILL SWELL UP AFTER ABOUT 30 DAYS .MOST SHOPS WILL NOT USE LACQUER ANY MORE BECAUSE OF ALL THE PROBLEMS WITH IT.WHY SPEND THOUSANDS ON A PAINT JOB TO HAVE IT CRACK. IF YOU HAVE A BLACK CAR AND NEED TO REPAIR A SPOT AFTER IT HAS BEEN PAINTED YOU HAVE ALMOST A 100% CHANCE IT WILL CRACK AS SOON AS YOU APPLY IT . I ASKED EVERY PAINT SALESMAN AND IN EVERY CLASS I TOOK WHY DOES THIS HAPPEN AND THE ANSWER WAS LAWAYS THE SAME . THAT IS WHAT BLACK LACQUER DOES . IF IT WERE MY CAR I WOULD JUST WASH THE OLD RED OXIDE WITH THINNER AND NOT TAKE THE CHANCE
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                    • Wayne W.
                      Extremely Frequent Poster
                      • April 30, 1982
                      • 3605
                      #6
                      Re: Lacquer primer question...

                      Well, I dont know that I agree with the statement, but I do agree with the solution. Thinners used in Urethane primers and paints have nothing like the penetrating power that old lacquer thinners had, so the statement that alone will crack the paint is suspect. But if you have ever stripped a car that has original lacquer on it and another paint on top, you will see that if any softening of the under lacquer can wrinkle and crack the paint. I would have a problem with someone elses primer, no matter what kind it is, on any car that I am painting. There are just too many things that can go wrong, and I dont know whats under there and how it was done. I wouldnt want to take that chance.
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                        • Mike M.
                          NCRS Past President
                          • May 31, 1974
                          • 8365
                          #7
                          Re: Lacquer primer question...

                          agree with wayne. no painter worth a hoot would shoot a car that another soul had preped/primered. also, when shooting lacquer over a car primed with todays primers, its imperative to shoot a lacquer sealer over the new-style primers. am having trouble acquiring a good lacquer sealer as we speak. mike
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                            • Chuck S.
                              Expired
                              • April 1, 1992
                              • 4668
                              #8
                              Re: Lacquer primer question...

                              Mike, I don't know what manufacturer's products you're using, but take a look at epoxy primer as a sealer.

                              It sounds a little unorthodox, but PPG product sheets says DPLF can be reduced for use as a sealer, and is compatible for topcoating with acrylic lacquer (PPG's DDL or Duracryl). For DPLF, the mixing proportions are 4 DPLF : 2 DP401LF/DP402LF : 1 DTR reducer.

                              You can also get the DPLF in different colors according to your preference...DP74LF is red oxide. They also make a dark gray (DP50LF?).
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                                • Dick W.
                                  Former NCRS Director Region IV
                                  • June 30, 1985
                                  • 10483
                                  #9
                                  Re: Lacquer primer question...

                                  Doc, as Chuck mentioned the PPG DP series can be reduced and used as a sealer under any top coats, lacquer, enamel, urethane, etc. Shoot it as the last thing sealing all the substrate material before you color coat.
                                  Dick Whittington
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                                    • Jim T.
                                      Expired
                                      • March 1, 1993
                                      • 5351
                                      #10
                                      Re: Lacquer primer question...

                                      When I painted my 70 in 1990 with Dupont lacquer I applied Dupont primer, then within the time parameters as per the Dupont paint book applied the Dupont lacquer color over the Dupont sealer. The required time to apply the color over the sealer was very short.
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                                        • Chuck S.
                                          Expired
                                          • April 1, 1992
                                          • 4668
                                          #11
                                          Caution Footnote For Greg...

                                          MAYBE using DPLF sealer is an option for you, Greg, but the product sheet for DPLF has this footnote at the bottom of the page:

                                          "++Caution: When DPLF is sprayed over lacquer substrates or basecoat that is not crosslinked, and then allowed to set overnight before applying another coat of primer or a topcoat, lifting can occur. This can be avoided by applying the DPLF Epoxy Primer, color and clear coat in the same day or by adding DX57 10% RTS (ready to spray) to DBC (PPG basecoat)."

                                          I read that footnote to say DPLF can be used as a sealer over lacquer based products if any primer top coat is applied over the sealer the same day, but I don't understand why this makes any difference. In your case, if I were applying lacquer color over the sealer, I would contact PPG technical service to confirm it can be done, or simply use the DX57.
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                                            • Mike M.
                                              NCRS Past President
                                              • May 31, 1974
                                              • 8365
                                              #12
                                              Re: Lacquer primer question...

                                              thanks guys. yoo too papa smurf. mike
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                                                • Dick W.
                                                  Former NCRS Director Region IV
                                                  • June 30, 1985
                                                  • 10483
                                                  #13
                                                  Re: Caution Footnote For Greg...

                                                  Chuck, I have used the DP as a sealer over the factory red primer with either lacquer or urethane over top the sealer. The key is to topcoat rapidly. I applied the DP, readied the color coat gun and started spraying. This was done in less than one hour time.
                                                  Dick Whittington
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                                                    • Mark S. Lovejoy
                                                      #14
                                                      Re: Lacquer primer question...

                                                      I shot DP90 over lacquer primer. DP90 on a Saturday, PPG lacquer topcoat on Sunday. I'm very pleased with the result.

                                                      Mark
                                                      27152




                                                      Attached Files
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                                                        • John D.
                                                          Extremely Frequent Poster
                                                          • December 1, 1979
                                                          • 5507
                                                          #15
                                                          Re: Lacquer primer question...

                                                          Mark, AS always you do reallly nice work. Pleased to see you went the lacquer route. My 63 has some really old ermine PPG lacquer on it and it shines so much the guys think it's clear coat. I used some GM Hand Glaze that I had stashed away for an eon and boy does it shine. John
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