Top Flight

[Keith N.]

Are there three levels of Top Flight Certificates? I was told there is a national level, regional level and local level. What is the difference? Also, does purchasing a Corvette that has recieved an NCRS Top Flight certificate insure that you are buying a 'good' functioning and fully operational car, or does it just confirm a matching numbers original?

[Harmon C.]

Re: Top Flight

Keith

Unless you buy the Top Flight car in the parking lot right after it is judged their is no way to tell if the judged parts are still their. As a general rule a chapter meet will have some great judges and others learning. At a regional or a national the best judges are usally their. The award is nice but you need to know how the car is the day you buy it. Find someone in your chapter to go along and help look at cars or hire an expert to check out the car.

Lyle

[Donald B.]

Re: Top Flight

Keith,

Before I purchased my '62 I "cold called" around and found a C-1 judge that had judged many '62s. He was nice enough to go and inspect the car for me. He then called me and gave me a verbal summary of the car - which is all I really wanted.

I fully expected to pay $75/hour or more for his time - which the Judge refused even though I strongly objected (honestly). The Judge's comment was something to the effect "...I do this as a hobby and as a favor to people. Someday do a favor for someone else." What goes around comes around.

I knew that I didn't know squat about cars or Corvettes and needed an "expert" to tell me if the car was truely what the seller said it was - and it was.

Even with the Judge's input I still flew cross country to see and ride in the car before I left a deposit.

Well worth the time and expense.

[Greg L.]

Re: Top Flight

"As a general rule a chapter meet will have some great judges and others learning. At a regional or a national the best judges are usally their."

I've often wondered about these "levels" too. So a car that squeeks buy with a Top Flight(say 94.5) at a chapter meet may or may not get a Top Flight at a regional or national because they have more experienced judges, right?

If I can get my ducks in a row I plan to have my car at the NW Regional next fall and then the Nationals In San Jose the next summer...kind of a rehersal for the big one so I'm just trying to figure out how this all works too.

[Roy B.]

Re: Top Flight

Great advice from Lyle and Dan , it dont get better then that!

[Garry Barnes]

Re: Top Flight

Greg,
One additional comment. A car may squeek by at a local meet because the owner is learning and wants to know what needs to be done to make it better and increase their chances of higher level top flights. The idea is that they go back with the knowledge and imporve on their car before taking it to a regional or national meet. Yes, there are more experienced judges at a regional and national events, but hopefully the car has been improved on as well. I was fortunate enough to have national and regional level judges at my chapter events, so improving my car on up the ladder was well advised.
Good luck.
Garry
#18531

[Michael W.]

Nobody answered your final question-

"Also, does purchasing a Corvette that has recieved an NCRS Top Flight certificate insure that you are buying a 'good' functioning and fully operational car, or does it just confirm a matching numbers original?"

It confirms neither. There is no road test during Flight Judging, just a basic functional test of a few systems like lights, horn, etc.

NCRS does not use the term 'numbers matching' (too nebulous these days) nor does the Flight Judging process confirm that a given component is original to any car.

[John D.]

Re: Nobody answered your final question-

Keith, Being an old time NCRS member here is what I tell a lot of individuals out to buy an old Corvette for the first time. One that may be a top flight blue ribbon winner.
I say you have to be careful because it really doesn't take that much to get a top flight. I mean our system is very fair. You can lose 270 points and still get a blue ribbon. A car that scores than low or close to it really needs a lot of attention. Not to say it isn't a decent car but I would want to see the judging sheets, etc.
If I was new at this game and really was serious in buying a really nice Corvette I would pay a well known appraiser and expert like say Chuck Berge to go evaluate the vehicle. Well worth the money spent. Let me put that another way. If I wanted to buy a really nice show car right now I would still have an appraiser look at the car even though I know a little more than the average guy. Good Luck, John

[Dave F.]

Re: Nobody answered your final question-

"You can lose 270 points and still get a blue ribbon. A car that scores than low or close to it really needs a lot of attention."

John,

I think that statement needs to be changed to say "may" need a lot of attention. It also may need none. You're right to want to look at the sheets. It depends on where the points were taken away. The original question was about a "good functioning, fully operational car". You can lose 85 points for the paint being too glossy. (I know, because I lost 'em.) And if it's a non-original color, there goes another 85. Put a battery other than Delco in the car and there goes another 40 points. And finally, some brand new radial tires and bye-bye to 60 points. That's 270 points on a car that could be an absolute gem. But some NCRS guys might cringe. It all depends on what you're looking for.

-Dave

[Harmon C.]

Re: Nobody answered your final question-

Keith
As John says you could lose 270 points and get the top flight. If your old corvette runs good you could drive to a meet 800 miles away and if your raw score was 86 you would get 8 points for the ride to the meet and still get a 94 top flight. Thats a total of 630 points. The ride to and from the meet will be priceless and you can show off the ribbon all the way home.

Lyle

[Gerard F.]

Top Flight doesn't insure anything on the car

Keith,

All it insures is that someone had a lot of fun getting that certificate.
I have a Top Flight 67 327/300 Marina Blue. I went through 2nd Flight, then Top Flight with mileage, but it is really a 2nd Flight car. Second owner, had it for 39 years.

Have great redline radials on it, urethane suspension, gas shocks, Vintage Air system, Exide battery, got it tuned so that it drives like it was new. The original paint job with primer showing through looks like crap close up, but when it is out on the road all the kids give me the thumbs up. I'm having a lot of run restoring it, and driving it at the same time, also meeting a lot of great people at the events.

The paint job will be the last thing and maybe never, I'd probably be afraid to park it downtown.

So it depends upon what you want to do with the car, it is a lot of fun going through the judging ladder, start with the chapter level. You'll meet a lot of great people.

I think Top Flight is mainly an owner award, and doesn't insure anything on the car.

I'm still having fun with mine.

Jerry Fuccillo
#42179

[Tom R.]

Re: Top Flight

Keith:

Great advice and insights here...none of which I disagree with so I'll just say the same in a different way.

Top flight is a snapshot at some point in the lifecycle of a Corvette...could have been yesterday could have been a decade ago. It means a group of hobbyists looked it over at some length and in great detail and found it consistent on that day to some quantitative degree with the NCRS guidelines for that particular model year. As Lyle points out, after earning that certificate, parts could have been removed and replaced with less than original parts and it could have been driven to death as well.

For exampl, friend of mine who restores Corvettes, restores, drives and than sells at about a two year mark when automotive attrition begins to set in. These are solid axle Corvettes. But they still carry their Top Flight status...they just have been worn done from their restoration point.

You refer to the judging levels of chapter, regional and national but as pointed out, the expertise rises (we hope) at each progression. But than, some chapters have worked hard to have a well trained group of judges and an owner could find great consistency from one level to the next. In the class I judge, it's not uncommon to learn after the fact that the national team's scores were not unlike that earned for a particular Corvette at a Regional meet. What you should expect is consistency...a bolt head marked original shouldn't become aftermarket at the next level.

But if you wish to learn what judges do and learn, attend the judges retreat in January. You'll learn what judges learn but it applies to how you care for and maintain your own vehicles.

[John D.]

Re: Nobody answered your final question-

Reality is that in general most of us feel a lot safer buying a Corvete that's been judged by our club. AT least if the car got a top flight it's a decent car. Might not be a trailer queen display car but at least it's got most of the correct components and therefore has decent value. Amen.