63-67 Steering Rag Joint

[Keith M.]

How are the two halves connected together on original 63-67 steering gear rag joints?
Thanks

[Joe L.]

Re: 63-67 Steering Rag Joint

keith-----

63-66 and 67 steering couplers are different. However, they both connect the same way. The connection is via 2 bolts, 180 degrees apart.

[Keith M.]

Re: 63-67 Steering Rag Joint

Joe,

Thanks for your opinion. Question, what about those that are attached with rivets? Yesterday I was in a paking lot and there was a 63,66 & 69 all were attached with bolts. Last weekend was Waco and a friend of mine had a very original 66 that had its rag goint bolted and they were going to deduct for it until we questioned the call and the judged scratched his head and changed his mind. When a car owner has four or eight guys with the one point mentality it gets interesting. Now if ones want to take this to another level take this thought procress over to Bloomington, as you and I know the same guys are judging in both systems, and these one point deductions become five points.We are on our way to a very limitied number of restored cars, unrestored cars will not make it because of deterioration, being rewarded a Top Flight or Bloomington Gold. Both systems are very good systems and have some very very knowledgeable judges. Thanks

[Stephen L.]

Re: 63-67 Steering Rag Joint

Here is a photo of my original restored 67 rag joint.

There are 2 rivets and 2 bolts with the black/grey fabric between.
The "rubber/plastic" boots cover the rivet studs.

I have not seen a riveted rag joint reproduced nor the stud covers. Typical reproduced joints are 4 bolts.

[Alan Drake]

Re: 63-67 Steering Rag Joint

Not sure what year you are looking for!
For my Mar64 the following applies - do not know about others - but my original is as follows

My nuts are down (facing towards steering box). The other two locations are held by riverts.

Mine appears to have had some black out on it. I also noticed that some paint markings may have been on the section facing the steering box, not sure of color since the only thing left was an area on coupling which was smooth shinney metal under the black.

Found the top bolt is black with an "A" in the center and three slash marks. The bottom bolt (near box) however is natural with a recessed head and small hole in center with three slash marks with the letters "RBW" between the marks.

The pn for the upper and lower metal pcs are both 5686624

The shaft going into steering box does seem to have a mark at 12:00 with steering wheel str up.

[Joe L.]

Re: 63-67 Steering Rag Joint

keith-----

The rivets do not "connect the 2 halves". The rivets merely secure the flexible joint to the lower flange. In PRODUCTION and GM SERVICE the lower flange is part of the coupler and the assembly is riveted together. Then, the upper flange is BOLTED to the coupler. The special rivets also serve as a "back-up" if the coupler should fail.

In AFTERMARKET SERVICE the coupler is often repaired. In this sort of repair, just the flexible portion of the coupler is replaced and the rest of the coupler assembly is re-used. However, to perform this sort of repair, the rivets have to be removed. They are replaced with bolts. These bolts DO NOT join the upper flange to the coupler, though; they simply hold the coupler assembly together.

So, the bottom line is this: if there are 2 bolts and 2 rivets, the steering joint is probably original or, at least, a GM SERVICE replacement. If there are 4 bolts, then the coupler has been repaired and is NOT as-original.

[Greg L.]

Re: 63-67 Steering Rag Joint

Just out of curiosity, should a 69 also have those rubber caps on the rivets?

Steve, are those the original ones or did you have to find something that "would work"? They look like large well nuts with the threaded portion removed....

[Joe L.]

Re: 63-67 Steering Rag Joint

Greg-----

No caps on the rivets that I am aware of. That's for any year. I can only guess that these are some sort of aftermarket thing. I've not seen them on a GM joint.

[Barbara S.]

My '65 rag joint

Joe, et al, here's a photo of my rag joint after I restored it. It's off of a '65 BB car (built 7-29-65). There are definitely two rivets in the rag joint at opposing positions in the rag joint.

My car is a non-tele column. I think the tele columns have a different rag joint.

Hope this helps.
Tony

[Joe L.]

Re: My '65 rag joint

Tony------

When you say "restored", I think that you mean that you thoroughly cleaned it. It does not appear to me that the flexible joint has been replaced. For one thing, it looks to be original to the coupling and for another, it still has the rivets.

As I mentioned previously, the rivets do not attach the separate flange to the coupling. The rivets only hold together the various components of the coupling---that's all. The 2 bolts hold together the separate flange and the coupling. The bolts are what, therefore, connect the steering box to the steering shaft. The long head rivets serve as a "back up" to prevent the loss of steering if the flexible joint should fail. They do this by preventing the upper and lower flanges from moving completely independent of one-another even though there is no longer a positive connection between them (since the steering box and steering shaft end cannot move away from each other, the effectiveness of the back-up is assured and the unit is rendered fail-safe).

If your coupling were completely rebuilt, the rubber component would be replaced. To do so, the rivets would have to be removed and, usually, replaced with bolts, often with special heads to provide the same "back-up" feature as the special rivets. However, the fact that it was not of original configuration would be easily discerned. There may be some folks capable of installing new rivets when rebuilding the coupling but there's no way I know of for a hobbyist to do it.

[Barbara S.]

Re: My '65 rag joint

Joe. Yes, I just thoroughly cleaned it and sprayed satin clear on the metal parts. I didn't replace any of the parts.

Best,
Tony

[Joe L.]

Addendum

Just to be more clear, the description I provided above really applies to the 1967-82 couplers. The 1963-66 are a bit different, but fundamentally the same. However, for the 63-66 couplers, the "back-up" or "fail safe" nature of the coupling is provided by the special BOLTS and not the rivets. For the 63-66 couplers, the rivets merely hold together the the components of the coupler assembly. If just the "rag joint" component is replaced, the rivets are removed and standard bolts used to re-attach the assembly.

Also, I forgot to mention that although the couplers used for tele and non-tele columns are different, they are fundamentally the same in design. The with tele couplings applied only to the 1965-66 model years. Tele columns were not used before 1965 and, beginning with 1967, only one coupler was used for all applications.

[Keith M.]

Re: Addendum

Guys thanks to you for you input. You guys have been a great help as usual.

[Joe L.]

Re: Addendum

keith------

Yes, the simple thing to keep in mind for ANY of the 63-82 steering couplings is this:

1) If there are 2 bolts and 2 rivets, the coupling may be original and, in any event and barring other "irregularities", is very possibly of original configuration;

2) If there are 4 bolts (and, no rivets), the coupler is not as originally configured;

3) If there are 4 rivets, somebody's "playing games" with you.

[Keith M.]

Re: Addendum

Joe, thanks I can understand this one very clear. We guys in the south like it simple.