I have a 70 Corvette I am trying to help a friend sell that the numbers don't make sense. The ID is 411547 on the windshield and the block. The other number on the block is V0513CJL- indicating a 71 270 HP. The trim tag which looks untouched has J21 with trim 420 and paint 983- also indicating 71. It is green with a saddle leather interior(needing replaced. The tag on the console also says 270 HP. This is not a restored vehicle- it is an old Corvette that needs restored. Who would change your hp numbers from 270 to 300? The tank sticker is gone- so no help there. The block numbers look original. Any ideas?
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Re: 70 Corvette Matching Numbers??
What is the ENTIRE VIN number off the windshield frame? Except for the "ID", you have perfectly described a correct 71.
This will be inconclusive, but check the lower edge of the front grilles...are there two mounting screws on the lower edge?...Or, are they plain with no holes?
Then, check the tail light lenses...Is the center portion rounded or hemisphereical?...Or, are they conical in shape?
Check the side fender grilles...Do the louver fins have continous raised vertical ribs at the trailing edge?...Or, Are they flattened with no raised vertical ribs? -
Re: 70 Corvette Matching Numbers??
The first numbers are 194370S.Comment
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Re: 70 Corvette Matching Numbers??
The body from a donor 70, and the rolling chassis, trim plate, and console plate from a 71? It is an extraordinarily gifted creation given the matching of the dates. That would be my conclusion until disproved by more history on the car from previous owners. Mistakes or anomalies of this magnitude just didn't happen to my knowledge.
Somewhere along the ownership history, a bugger is going to come out of the woodpile. The "creator" would have been better off to just convert the car entirely to a 71, but swapping VIN plates is a serious offense. JMHO.Comment
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Re: 70 Corvette Matching Numbers??
Kris------
Even more information is needed to help "untangle" this situation. First of all, what is the casting DATE on the block? This will be found on the block's bellhousing flange on the passenger side. You'll have to look down between the block and the firewall to see it. It will consist of an alpha character followed by numbers.
Second, does the car still have its original windshield? On the upper passenger corner of the windshield does it say "LOF Safety Plate", "LOF Safety Flo-Lite", or something else? If either of the first two, what is the date code? This will be seen as a 2 alpha-character code near the above-described.In Appreciation of John HinckleyComment
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Re: 70 Corvette Matching Numbers??
Joe and Chuck, First off, thanks for the help. Now here is more info- it is not the original windshield. The casting on the block looks like it says E121. The taillights are conical. And if I am looking at the right place on the front grilles, there are 2 screws on the bottom. The side grilles look the same to me as on a 71 we have unless I am missing something. Anything else I can see? Thanks, KrisComment
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Re: 70 Corvette Matching Numbers??
Are the rivets holding the VIN plate rosette head or just common round head??Dick WhittingtonComment
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Re: 70 Corvette Matching Numbers??
Dick, I would say rosette. KrisComment
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Re: 70 Corvette Matching Numbers??
Kris-----
The 1970 Corvette that's indicated by the VIN plate and the VIN derivative on the engine block was built in mid June, 1970. The engine block date is May 12, 1971 with an engine assembly date of May 15. I don't see any way that an engine manufactured in May, 1971 could have been factory-installed in a car built in June, 1970. The thing I cannot figure out is how the 1970 VIN derivative got onto a stamp pad of an engine manufactured in May, 1971. Of course, there's the possibility that it was re-stamped, but then how/why did they maintain the original engine code but re-stamp the VIN derivative? A detailed photo of the stamp pad might help here.
The fact that the windshield has been replaced is a bad sign. That indicates that the "opportunity" once presented itself for "funny business" with the VIN plate. As Dick previously mentioned, you need to try to inspect the rivets on the VIN plate. Even if they are the correct rivets, that does not mean that the plate was not changed. These rivets are "out there". However, if the rivets are incorrect, then you KNOW the VIN plate has been "removed and re-attached". The rivets may be very difficult to see with the windshield on, however. That's because the pillar post trim may hide them. Usually, you can see at least part of one rivet, though.
Basically, what you have here is a 1971 Corvette that someone has likely changed the VIN plate on and somehow managed to stamp the VIN derivative on the block. The latter part I can't figure out.
Why would someone do this? Well, if one had a 1970 Corvette that was wrecked and one went out and stole a 1971, one could have transferred the VIN plate from the wrecked car to the stolen one. Then, the stolen car "assumes the identity" of the wrecked car. If one is the titled owner of the wrecked car, especially if the car was wrecked without insurance coverage, this represents a means to "recovering". There are other possible explanations, of course, but this is one possibility that's occurred on more than a few occasions in the past.
You need to inspect the car's frame-stamped VIN derivative. This is very hard to do, but it needs to be done in this case. The frame-stamped VIN can be found on the driver side frame rail on the TOP surface APPROXIMATELY in line with the rear wheel centerline. First, you must thoroughly clean the area with a small brush. Then, with a mirror and good light between the body and the frame rail, you should be able to read the number on the frame rail. THIS NEEDS TO BE DONE.In Appreciation of John HinckleyComment
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Re: 70 Corvette Matching Numbers??
Joe, I will try and take some pictures and post them. It will probably be tomorrow night. Stay tuned. Thanks for all of the help. KrisComment
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Re: 70 Corvette Matching Numbers??
Some 70s after serial number 13656 have been seen with screws in the front grilles; since this one is 11547, it should have no screws in the front grilles if it's a 70. My late 70 (17074) has no screws, so the grilles sans screws are still seen in late 70s.
Conical tail lights are on all 70s, and 71s have them until somewhere around serial numbers 5000-6000. If it's a 70 body, I would expect the tail lights to be conical.
The difference in the side grilles is very subtle; you almost need someone to point it out to you.
As Joe said, a 70 VIN body with serial 11547 would have been built sometime around in mid June, 1970. The engine with a 71 base engine suffix was built May 13,1971, but the block was cast May 12...the close proximity of the two dates has been seen very rarely and would certainly justify closer scrutiny. The trim plate is stamped with body build date J21 or May 21, 1971, which works very well with the engine build date of May 13,1971.
The "creator" could probably hardly contain his glee. With that body, he wouldn't have to change the VIN plate for the casual observer. All he would have to do is just restamp the VIN derivative on the engine and swap the trim tag with what appear to me to be ordinary aluminum pop rivets. For a less informed or casual observer, this might pull off the fraud. In my opinion, the fact that the windshield has been changed is coincidental and unrelated to this "melding" of the two Corvettes. However, if this creation was to fly for almost everyone, he should have swapped the VIN plate as well...unless of course, it was damaged by fire.
Incidentally, the VIN derivative on a 70 engine (and 71 up only through September 2,1970) would be 70S411547 or 71S1XXXXX. After September 2,1970, 71s have the VIN derivative format C11S1XXXXX. Which format does this one have? Can you post a high quality photo of the engine pad?...I would love to see it.Comment
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Re: 70 Corvette Matching Numbers??
Chuck, The VIN derivative is 70S411547. Can I post a picture on a reply? I will try and get the pictures tomorrow. If someone was going to create a different car- wouldn't they try to make it more valuable- not less? That is what does not make sense to me. Thanks, KrisComment
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Re: 70 Corvette Matching Numbers??
There is a chance they had a title and VIN tag from a damaged car, and a body without a title. Put the two together and they have a more valuable (sale-able) vehicle out of two unusable items.TerryComment
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Re: 70 Corvette Matching Numbers??
Yes...But, one whole, apparently "numbers matching" Corvette would be worth more than two wrecks separately.
The fact that a 71 base engine was used indicates to me that this was "project of opportunity" rather than someone trying to mint a valuable Corvette. In other words, the owner maybe started out with his personal 71 that was damaged to the point where it needed a new body, and he set out to find one, but had to settle for a 70. If the prospective buyer is unfamiliar with engine suffixes, horsepowers, approximate date of body build, etc for a 70, the "creator" may be able to pull it off.
You will need to put your photos on a photo hosting site in order to post them here. Someone posted detailed instructions on posting photos, and wahlah!, I knew how to post pictures to the TDB...and then I went to sleep and forgot. I can't find the post, but go to the Help tab above...John has instructions and some recommended photo host sites there.Comment
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Re: 70 Corvette Matching Numbers??
I did an inspection of another C-3 with a similar situations. The body was one year and the chassis and running gear was another. It also was a base engine car. Easy way to "wash" a stolen car, fix a total loss, etc. The senarios are endless as to what happened. The only way to find out it to talk to each and every prior owner and that is about impossible. Some have disappeared, have selective memory, or just plain won't talk to youDick WhittingtonComment
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