where to buy exhaust system

[Bernard S.]

Re: Exhaust options

I agree with Dave and patrick. Do your research and have your car judged before you change anything. I have a 5900 mile 72 LS5 coupe that has original everything with the exception of the battery. Some thing didn't agree with what I read, but nothing was changed. It has passed flight judging and bow tie judging and the unusual things are still unchanged. I looked at the pictures of the Gardener exhaust system and one can't see if the pipes are flatten, but I am sure a phone call would answer that question.

[Michael G.]

Re: Exhaust options

Thanks guys,

You just verified what I had been thinking. It's not a written information as much as an experience. Asking questions, paying attenion, noticing details. I envy you guys. I wish I had started sooner but I have you to help me catch up. Thanks,

Mike

[Terry M.]

Re: Exhaust options

There is a lot of the information you are looking for in the TIM&JG (Technical Information Manual& Judging Guide), but you have to understand that it is a work in progress that will never be finished.

You also have to understand that it describes Typical Factory Production (TFP). NO Corvette was ever produced that was assembled the same as any other -- all of them have anomalies; some more than others. The challenge for both judges and owners is to determine what has been modified after production and what was done at the factory.

The TIM&JG will never be a blueprint for how to restore a Corvette. It is intended to be a guide. Take it as that, understand the shortcomings, and you will have a lot more fun than if you expect the TIM&JG to be the gospel.

Oops time to get off the soapbox. Sorry.

[Rob A.]

Re: Exhaust options

Dick...

Do you know if they can supply an exhaust('66 small block 4 spd) system with the mufflers welded onto the secondary pipes as original? I couldn't tell from my initial view of their web site.

[Dick W.]

Re: Exhaust options

They are welded as far as I know

[Jim B.]

Re: Exhaust options

I am not sure I understand your post. The 68 did indeed have a 2 1/2 inch exhaust on the 327 350hp MT car. It also had the flattened pipes. Are you saying that just the Gardiners system only carries/has the 2 inch???

Jim Boudreaux
38390
68 original owner

[Dave S.]

Re: Exhaust options

Jim,
Sorry for the confused post. What I was trying to say was the 68 systems have different part numbers from 69-72. I'm not familiar with 68 systems at all but the differing part numbers indicate that 68's are different fron 69-72. Gardners does not make a 2 inch system as thay have no prototype to work from. The 2 inch pipes from 70-72 vintage are not flattened but the 2 1/2" 70-72 systems are flattened. Seeing as 69's all have 2 inch systems and the part numbers are the same as 70-72 they would not be flattened either. An earlier post suggested that Gardners 2 1/2" systems did not appear flattened from their photos but I'll bet they are.

[Jim B.]

Re: Exhaust options

Dave

Thanks. I had thought the 69 350 350hp car also had the 2 1/2 inch exhaust but I could be wrong. I do know that there were several different exhaust sytems for the 68, 69 year cars. I know the 68 year had several. I hope that the Gardners systems will be made for the 68,69. Their web site does not currently mention these years.

[Dave S.]

Re: Exhaust options

Jim,
I'm going by the Chevrolet parts book and my knowledge that the 69 big block cars do in fact ahve 2 inch exhaust, strange as that may be. I just found the NOS 2" pipes for my 71 ZQ3/Auto car so I've been trying to get up to speed on these systems and the nuance's that accompany them. This Gardner's thing is a real help to the hobby. Their work is as good as it gets. Hopefully the 68 and 69-72 2" systems are next.

[Dick W.]

Re: Exhaust options

ALL under the car exhaust '69's had 2", even the L-71 and L/88's

[Jim B.]

Re: Exhaust options

Dick

I was aware of the 69 big block situation as we judged a 69 L88 in Florida. I also know that the 68 350HP had 2 1/2 inch systems as mine did when I brought it home from the dealer. By the way, it had 2 inch exhaust manifolds but the pipes were expanded just after the Manifold connection/diverter valve to 2 1/2 inches. I guess I haven't seen a 350HP 69 lately. Likely most have been changed to big blocks by now. LOL

[Dick W.]

Re: Exhaust options

Jim, '68's used 2 1/2" pipes as you described. Sure did choke the '69's though

[Jim T.]

Re: Exhaust options

Jim you mention your 68 was brought home from the dealer. Do you remember if the mufflers were welded to the exhaust pipes?

[Jim B.]

Re: Exhaust options

Absolutely. The whole thing was welded together and was a royal pain. It looked like it was one piece so the weld joint was either at the muffler or inside it. When the car was six months old, the back hanger material broke and the muffler dragged on the ground until I could tie it up. Back then, with leaded gas, I had to replace the mufflers every year sometimes more often. That car was my daily driver in New England for 5 years so I was forced to use the Midas Muffler option. They cut the pipe at the muffler and then used an expander joint to clamp the replacement mufflers to the pipe. The big issue was finding the 2 1/2 inch mufflers. Not every midas shop carried them back then. I still have the original pipes from the manifold to the joint at the center hanger (although very rusty). Don't know why they lasted because the muffler pipes had to be replaced several times over the years.

Good memories though.

Dick, another good memory was that my new '68 could outrun/drag most '69's up to the 400hp 427 version. Maybe it was that small muffler pipe on the 69's that helped me. I had thought that it was just due to the 327 L79 being a better motor than the 350 and a lot lighter than the iron 427's.
Oh well, memories are still good

[Stan F.]

Re: Exhaust options

I've seen my name mentioned along with comments that Gardner's new Corvette exhaust is "perfect"... I figured that I'd make some comments on their expected offering for the 1970-1972 LT-1 and big block (manual transmission) cars before it actually hits the market. The following is a response to another member via email. I went into a good bit of detail of Gardner's Corvette exhaust and it should help people compare it to what actually was installed on these cars in St. Louis.

Tom and Eric Gardner gave me a set of "pre-production" pipes about a year and half ago. These pipes were copied from a set of original, production LT-1 pipes that I managed to get my hands on about five years ago. The pipes produced by Gardner's are really nice... The front pipes are correctly swaged and the rear pipes have the compression wrinkles as original. I still believe the rear pipes need to be "flattened" more (where the pipes travel under the rear spring), but outside of that, they could almost pass for the real thing. The front pipes lack the part numbers found on the originals, but they can't be seen when the pipes are assembled so I don't see that as a problem (if a restorer was so inclined, these part numbers could very easily be replicated). The pipes ARE aluminized so that will be evident to the judges, but I imagine that if enough people showed interest in untreated carbon steel, I would guess that Gardner's might be talked into doing a few sets.

Front/Rear Pipes

Pros: From a configuration standpoint, they are just about on the money. There is nothing else available that appears anything like them.

Cons: The pipes are aluminized and will be detected by any good judge (finish issue). The rear pipes need to be flattened a bit more than the prototypes that I was given. Tom Gardner told me that this could be done to a degree, but his current machinery wouldn't be able to flatten the pipes much more... Maybe another 1/4 inch or so (to be honest, that's probably all that is needed).

Options: Convince Gardner's to flatten the pipes as close to original as their equipment allows. Convince Gardner's to do short runs in carbon steel (prepaid/non-refundable orders will probably be required for this).

The mufflers were also very well done. In addition to the mufflers on the exhaust system that I let them copy, I also provided a very old NOS muffler for them to disect to veiw how it was internally manufactured. I am told that this is exactly what was done although I have yet to hear them on a running car. The mufflers come individually and must be welded to the rear pipes as was done on the prodution line which is really not a problem as it allows the restorer to accurately position the pipes/mufflers for the best possible installation. There are a couple of areas that differ from the production mufflers and will have to be addressed by the restorer. First is the "W" that was debossed in the muffler case. Gardner's will not place this "W" (identifying Walker as the OEM) on the muffler for fear of legal issues that might come up. I think a resourceful restorer can come up with a reasonable solution to this problem. Second, the outlet pipe on the prototype(s) had a visible seam in the tubing that is not present on the original. It can be addressed by the restorer, but it would be much easier to use tubing with a seam that is not visible. The third item that differs from the originals is the lack of a "locating tab" which was spot welded to the muffler outlet pipe to assist the line worker in correctly orienting the exhaust tip. Not a major hurdle, but tabs will have to be fashioned and spot welded in the correct location. Finally, the reproductions will not have the part number tags found on the originals, but an hour on the computer with some self adhesive labels should solve that.

Mufflers

Pros: Physically appear the same as the originals with the exception of some minor details. I am told that the internal structure is identical to the original mufflers.

Cons: No "W" on muffler case. Visible seam in outlet pipe. No locating tab on upper part of outlet pipe. Lack of part number labels.

Options: Fashion a "W" on the outside of the case by welding or composite (outside of case is non-magnetic). Weld/fill gap in seam on outlet pipe or have Gardner's correct issue by using tubing without a visible seam. Cut tab from suitable steel stock and weld to top of outlet tube. Create part number lables.

None of these issues are impossible to overcome. Probably the biggest are trying to convince Gardner's to do carbon steel pipes (they don't want to keep inventory that is going to rust and be impossible to sell and I can't say that I blame them) and creating the "W" on the case of the muffler. All of the other fixes are pretty straight forward. These pipes are the most accurate that have ever been available for our cars and with a little massaging, they should do very well in judging.

That about covers it. In speaking with Tom Gardner a few weeks ago, I got the impression that they have no immediate plans to produce the small block systems for 1970-1972, but if an original, production system turned up for them to duplicate, they'd take a look at it. I have some photos of several of the issues mentioned above that I will be forwarding to Gardner's this week. They seem quite anxious to address any issues in the configuration of their product (within reason) and really do want manufacture an accurate product. Regardless of the issues mentioned, it is a VERY good reproduction with the potential to be a great reproduction with a little "tweaking" here and there.

Regards,

Stan