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I'm at my wits end or halfwits end with the body build number on my 61 vette with a body build number 1 .I learned that three of the cars built previous to mine had handlayed fiberglass on the underbodies.Wwere the first twelve cars considered the test or pilot cars for the 60 to 61 body change?Why doesn't s/n 0001 have build #1? Some people told me the build # doesn't affect the placement on the assy. line.I heard that the first 20 cars in 61 went to race teams,celebrities,maybe Route 66.Does anyone think by virtue of my s/n or body# it could be a clue to the history of #00013.I E-mailed the owner of #11 with no response.Does anyone know the body # on any of the first 500 cars? This number situation gnaws at me and my ignorance of the whole situation is forcing me to annoy alot of people and I appologize and on the other hand I'm thankful to the hobby guys who are kind enough to reply.Car options are: Fuel,big brakes,radio delete.It's white with a red interior(same as Delmo Johnson's Sebring car-still undiscovered,has roll bar mounts,numerous antenna holes,came with a tonneau cover,heads are marked 0-181598 GM castings.So I'll keep plugging along .Thanks
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Re: 1961 Body Build Number
You're in the 'Twilight Zone' here with such an early car... Often, 'games' were played with these early pilot/mule production cars. Some were built for trans-shipment to Chevy engineering for design testing and/or verification of production assy tooling.
Once in a while they were 'hand walked' through final assy BEFORE the start of pilot production. This means they were actually built while the prior year's production sequence was up and running with various components being of prototype vs. full production configuration. It was a LOT cheaper to build a car on the production line vs. having it hand assembled by model shop labor at the design center in Warren, Mich....
One car I had the pleasure to see was a 1963 designated as VIN 22. It was NOT a production vehicle! It was 100% a 'one-off' hand-built prototye made at the styling center in Warren with VIN/Trim tags 'borrowed' from the pilot production run and affixed to the car under a Shop Order.
The drawings supporting the special SO status of this car still exist and the car is VERY different from 'typical' factory production cars that came before/after its VIN sequence....
Bottom line, your car could be quite special with a UNIQUE history that merits research before you assume it's actually a full production vehicle. -
Re: 1961 Body Build Number
Hi Joel,
We spoke some years ago but lost touch. I have an early '61 VIN '095 and it too is a 315 HP with radio delete. It was drag raced in Southern Calif, including a win at the Winternationals in Pomona. It also has the prototype cylinder heads and the original block. You might double check the number on the head, it possibly is 0-191598 rather than 0-181. I don't have my build number handy, but I can pull it off some photos if you are interested.
I too am interested in when these cars were made and how in the heck did we get engineering prototype heads on our cars? Anyone have any clues? Ken Kayser thought it could be an engineering car.
These heads have normal 2 barrel passenger car identification markings, not camel humps. They are the big valve 1.94 intake valve heads. I remember the old NCRS judging manual stated some early '61s had 315 hp engines without the camel humps. Did the guys who wrote the manual take note of the casting numbers?
My car has the original engine with a July build date. The generator is June. The top has July dates.
Have you been able to get any good photos of Delmo Johnson's Sebring car to check the placement of various holes that could lead to some clues of your car's history? With the Internet, more and more pictures are coming up.
Regards
Bert Brown
Danville CAComment
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Re: 1961 Body Build Number
Hi Jack- Thank you for your reply.I know you are well versed in cylinder heads because I read your information on the chat line before and I was impressed with your expertise.Could you elaborate a little more on the Saginaw heads. Incidentally,my alzheimers kicked in and I gave the incorrect head casting# which s/b 0-191598 cast on 6-17-60. Thanks againComment
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Re: 1961 Body Build Number
I'm not sure I understand what you're driving at here... SB engine components were cast and assembled at two locations in the US (a third foundry/assy location was in Canada) and the parts from each manufacturing complex are slightly different in construction to the point savvy judges can tell them apart.
Since Corvette was built in a single final assy plant (St. Louis) and had a rather small annual production volume, small block engines were almost exclusively sourced from the Flint, Michigan engine plant (reduce freight-in costs?). Flint obtained its raw cylinder head & block castings from the iron foundries in Saginaw, Michigan (about 40 miles north of Flint).
So, you wouldn't want to 'restore' a Corvette using engine castings from either Tonawanda, NY or St. Catherines, Ontario even though those other two plants probably did manufacture 'equivalent' castings bearing the same cast number....Comment
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Re: 1961 Body Build Number
Hi Jack,
Let me chime in here. I think Joel is asking about his Prototype cylinder heads and mistakingly referred to them as Saginaw heads. I have a pair of these heads on my '61 also. Since these are non-production line parts, does that mean Joel's and my car are non-production line vehicles?
Some years ago I showed these heads to Grumpy Jenkins. He told me that he received engineering parts with 0 dash numbers, but they were never on a vehicle. He said even on his Z-11, which was the first one built, there were no 0 dash castings on it anywhere, and he told me that he took the time to look at everything.
Thanks
Bert BrownComment
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Re: 1961 Body Build Number
Is there any chance of getting some pictures of these early 1961 FI heads with casting numbers and dates?
Thanks RayComment
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Re: 1961 Body Build Number
I've got some but I don't know how to post them.
It appears I have to put them on the internet, then link it. Is that correct?
BertComment
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Re: 1961 Body Build Number
Yes, you need a host to post pictures on the internet. I have created a web site for the 1961 Corvette and this is where I would like to display the pictures. If you email me the pictures I will up-load them on the internet for you. You can then up-load them to this site, or I can do it for you.
Thanks Ray #36314
www.rayscorvette.comComment
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Re: 1961 Body Build Number
JACK, FOR SOME REASON I AM HAVING DIFFICULY SENDING MAIL VIA THE CHAT LINE SO THIS IS MY 2ND ATTEMPT. I AM NOT FAMILIAR WITH CASTING NUMBERS ON HEADS. I ONLY MENTIONED IT BECAUSE I SAW YOU MENTIONED IT IN A PREVIOUS CHAT AND IT STUCK IN MY HEAD. ALL I KNOW IS THAT THE HEADS ON MY CAR 0-191598 WITH A GM CAST 6-17-60. HAVE ALL THESE NUMBERS CAST INTO THE HEAD. I'VE BEEN TOLD THAT THEY ARE PROTOTYPE HEADS AND I WAS JUST WONDERING WHERE THEY WERE CAST AND IF YOU HAD KNOWLEDGE OF THEM. I KNOW OF THREE EARLY 61'S WITH THESE HEADS ON THEM . I HAVE BEEN TRYING TO GET INFO ON OTHER 61'S WITH EARLY SERIAL NUMBERS REGARDING BODY BUILD NUMBERS AND HEAD NUMBERS. THE C1 REGISTRY IS RATHER SPARSE. THANKS FOR YOUR REPLY TO MY E-MAILComment
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Re: 1961 Body Build Number
Joel,
Just checked my photos and my VIN '095 has a build number 78.
Obviously, these cars were not built in exact sequence.
Regards
BertComment
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Re: 1961 Body Build Number
Bert -
They weren't physically locked in sequence until they left the Paint Shop and were loaded on the Hard Trim Line.Comment
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Re: 1961 Body Build Number
Bert -
They weren't physically locked in sequence until they left the Paint Shop and were loaded on the Hard Trim Line.Comment
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