Unique color of early 64 seatbelts?

[Jim Propheter (40599)]

I’m having the red seatbelts from my 64 coupe restored by Charlie Santorelli. Charlie called the other day with some interesting news. The first thing he asked, was my car an early production 64. It is. The original seatbelts in my car were never really red. He said they were scarlet. Charlie said he had only seen a few original sets in this color and that they were quite rare. Apparently, they were used only in the first few weeks of 1964. They were also used on Chevrolet passenger cars with red interiors. Does anybody else have any info on this seatbelt color? He also didn’t know the changeover point.

The problem on the restoration is that Charlie does not have scarlet webbing. He was able to clean the belts fairly well but they probably won’t show well in a completely restored car. They have faded a bit after 40 years. Because they are somewhat unique I don’t think he wants to mess with them too much without the correct webbing. He would rather keep them original. He suggested that we clean up the original set as best we can and then put them aside in the event some NOS scarlet webbing surfaces. In the meantime, he will make me up a set of 64 seatbelts in the standard red color that will “show” better.

Is this color change a well known fact? I have not seen any reference to this anywhere else. I’m sure Charlie knows what he’s talking about since he probably is more of a seatbelt expert than most of us. Can any other 64 red interior owners chime in? The belts have a slight purple tint to them. I always thought they were faded but apparently this is the actual color. I would be interested in any documentation to substantiate this color. Thanks. Jim

[Jim Wampler (45572)]

Re: Unique color of early 64 seatbelts?

Jim, I also have an early (Nov built) 64 with red interior. My belts are very faded also due to California sun on a convertible. I cleaned them with the simple green method and then thought I could send them to Charlie to be restored (dyed) when he informed me restored meant "new web". He also asked if they were "red-orange" or "red-maroon". It's been a while so not sure but I'm thinking the purpleish also. Will check tonight and look for a more preserved area under a buckle. I hated the thought of cutting the old web off since it is in VERY good condition, no fraying, all lables intact and legible (probably weren't used much). I still like the idea of dyeing them if anyone knows a good method. Thanks,Jim

[Robert Schenkel (42286)]

Re: Unique color of early 64 seatbelts?

Jim,

Check the achrives...there was a discussion about dyeing seats belts within the last week to 10 days.

Bob

[Kevin Muldoon (35046)]

Re: Unique color of early 64 seatbelts?

Put the original ones back in the car. I like and I think most judges would rather see as many original parts in a car as possible. I think with your early car story you'll get more complements than just a nice set of restored belts and maybe just a slight condition deduct.

Kevin

[Jim Propheter (40599)]

Re: Unique color of early 64 seatbelts?

Jim, I don't think Charlie will dye seatbelts. As far as I know he will only replace. I had always noticed that my "red-maroon" belts didn't match the rest of the interior very well. Perhaps this is why GM discontinued them. As far as dying goes, I think it would be next to impossible to match the original scarlet color without an NOS piece of webbing to look at. Charlie will clean, rechrome (if necessary), and the take the resoration as far a you like without replacing the webbing. Since these belts may be unique, I have decided not to dye them. Once they are dyed, they are changed forever. It's just another unique preserved piece of corvette history. I'm still not sure which belts I will use when I show the car.

[Harry Sadlock]

Re: Unique color of early 64 seatbelts?

I agree with Kevin. If you have the original part you will have no deducts on originality. Some points on condition but not enough to affect a top-flight.

I have my original 63 saddle seatbelts in a box and a real nice set of $25.00 aftermarkets for driving around. Most folks don't know or much less care as long as it shines.

What you have on the car for a show-and-shine is something else.

Harry

[Tracy Crisler (40411)]

Re: Unique color of early 64 seatbelts?

Jim,

Charlie is certainly the smartest guy I know with regard to Corvette seat belts. I'm curious if the same thing may have happened in 63.

I know the color on the left in this pic was used in 63 Passenger cars, but I thought the Corvettes used the color on the right. I'd love to hear from Duke or other original owners of a 63's with red interiors as to which color their cars had.

In person, I'd describe the color of the webbing on the left as a wine color and the color on the right as the typical red found in other 63 interior parts like the seat covers.

As for your "scarlet" belts:

Are you POSITIVE they are original to your car?

tc

[Jim Propheter (40599)]

Re: Unique color of early 64 seatbelts?

Tracy, unless we're the original owner of our car I don't think any of us can be absolutely positive the parts on our cars are original to our cars. I've owned the car since 1977 but I have no documentation prior to that. So, no I can't be positive the belts are original to the car. However, Charlie seemed to know I had an early build date based on the color of the belts so I assumed he had seen this before. I was hoping someone had some information for me that would reinforce Charlie's claim that the belts were an odd color. It looks like at least one other poster may have the wine colored belts on his Nov built car. Since I'm restoring the car to be judged I would certainly like to get it right. Hopefully, someone "in the know" will chime in. I agree with you that it would seem odd that GM would change the color in midstream but maybe they had a short supply of the red belts for a few weeks and used the next closest color from their other passenger car lines. It wouldn't be the first time. If only these cars could talk and tell us the real story! Thanks for the response and the pics. Jim

[Jim Wampler (45572)]

Re: Unique color of early 64 seatbelts?

Jim, I checked mine last night and it was hard to tell with the florescent overhead and flashlight combo since they are soooo faded. I'll have to remove one and photo underside by bolt clip. But I really think they were more the wine color also. I've only owned the car four years and have no history, so can't help there. Jim

[Duke Williams (22045)]

Re: Unique color of early 64 seatbelts?

I still have my original '63 belts and though somewhat faded, the left belt looks like the correct '63 color, which was much darker than the red interior vinyl.

It's quite possible that a new color that more closely matched the red vinyl was phased in early in the '64 model year after the remaining "scarlet red" '63 belts were depleted from inventory. This was a very common practice to use remaining prior year inventory as long as functionality was not affected.

Seatbelts were not common in that era. They were standard on Corvette and optional on some makes/models, but volume was not high, by automotive standards. They always appeared to me to be "off-the-shelf" airliner seat belts. It could be that GM just selected the closest available color from Irving Air Chute in '63. Then for '64 they ordered a custom color that more closely matched the other interior materials.

Duke

[Tracy Crisler (40411)]

Re: Unique color of early 64 seatbelts?

Thank you Duke,

Maybe..just maybe the darker red color was used throughout the 63 model year on both Passenger Cars and Corvettes.

The webbing style did change for 64 but a color change may not have occured until after the the start of production. This would substaniate Charlie Santorelli's observation on the 64 red.

Does anyone else have what they believe to be original red 63 webbing on their 63 seat belts?

tc

[Tracy Crisler (40411)]

Re: Unique color of early 64 seatbelts?

Thank you Duke,

Maybe..just maybe the darker red color was used throughout the 63 model year on both Passenger Cars and Corvettes.

The webbing style did change for 64 but a color change may not have occured until after the the start of production. This would substaniate Charlie Santorelli's observation on the 64 red.

Does anyone else have what they believe to be original red 63 webbing on their 63 seat belts?

tc

[James West (18379)]

Re: Unique color of early 64 seatbelts?

Jim,

I have a 1964 Corvette convertible that I bought in 1980 from the second owner and restored it. I did a quick dye job on the seat belts at that time just to make them look better. A few years ago, I sent my belts to Charlie to have him restore them and make them look and function correctly. He called me with the same observation that after steam cleaning the belts they were the scaret color that you mention. He said that the belt materials looked fine after they had been steam cleaned so all that was done was rebuilt the clasps and install new labels. He also asked me if the car was an early production car. It was built on January 18th, #9258.

Regards,

James West

[James West (18379)]

Re: Unique color of early 64 seatbelts?

Jim,

I have a 1964 Corvette convertible that I bought in 1980 from the second owner and restored it. I did a quick dye job on the seat belts at that time just to make them look better. A few years ago, I sent my belts to Charlie to have him restore them and make them look and function correctly. He called me with the same observation that after steam cleaning the belts they were the scaret color that you mention. He said that the belt materials looked fine after they had been steam cleaned so all that was done was rebuilt the clasps and install new labels. He also asked me if the car was an early production car. It was built on January 18th, #9258.

Regards,

James West

[Jim Propheter (40599)]

Re: Unique color of early 64 seatbelts?

Thanks for the response, James. If this color is really an anomaly I'm surprised it went all the way into the fourth production month. I have an October car. These "scarlet" belts may be more common than I thought. I wonder when the bright red belts started to appear. Have you ever had your car judged and what was the reaction to the belts?