CE engine stampings.

[Tom B.]

Does anyone know when Flint started the practice of stamping replacement blocks/fitted cylinder cases/short blocks/engine assemblies with the CE prefix followed by date and sequence number? Did they do this in callender year 1963 on 870 327 blocks?

Thanks,
Tom

[John H.]

Re: CE engine stampings.

I believe the "CE" program didn't start until '68, to deal with the fallout from the 5/50 powertrain warranty; same program started with "CT" transmissions. Enabled the bean-counters to separate the number of engines ordered as warranty replacements from those ordered for non-warranty replacement or retail sale over the parts counter, which had blank pads.

[Tom B.]

Re: CE engine stampings.

Thanks John. I have a friend that got his original short block with his '63 but the car has a reported GM service replacement short block in it. He thought it should be CE stamped and I thought it was too old. Thanks for clearing this up.

Tom

[Duke W.]

Follow-up question

John - from all the discussion over the past months on "CE" engines I was under the impression that all over the counter engines carried this designation - both warranty and customer ordered, but yout post says that "CE" ONLY applied to warranty and not customer billable repair. Is this correct?

In other works, a "CE" engine would most likely mean a warranty replacement as opposed to a customer inspired swap or a customer paid repair order after expiration of the warranty.

Duke

[Jerry G.]

Re: Duke I have one.

I have an over the counter LT-1 long block which I purchase in 1973. It came with the CE stamp.

[John H.]

Re: Duke I have one.

As with many things, "absolutes" are rare; the "CE" program was intended to enable the bean-counters to separate absorbed warranty cost (which was FAR more than had been estimated when the 5/50 powertrain warranty was sold to management) from retail sales, but there were obviously exceptions. My '69 Z/28 has a "CE" block also, and I have a copy of the selling dealer's shop work order to replace the blown-up original engine with the "CE" short-block 10 months after the car was delivered; they also had to order one complete cylinder head and a camshaft - must have been ugly when it blew!

[Joe L.]

Re: Duke I have one.

Duke and John-----

In 1975, I purchased a 69-70 300hp/350 cid partial engine (short block) assembly, GM #3970655. This assembly had no stampings, whatsoever, on the engine stamp pad.

[Mike Cobine]

Re: CE engine - Why no NCRS recognition?

I have had several friends who had engines replaced under warranty, and I have too, such as the CE engines. In each case, the engine was only replaced AFTER Chevrolet inspected the car through their representative, the zone manager.

The engine is a part that a dealer didn't sinmply replace under warranty, unlike an alternator or such. Chevrolet had to get involved. This means that a CE represents Chevrolet getting involved with a Corvette after it left the factory. It is historically significant, as they did not get involved with every Corvette after it was build.

As such, these should really be preserved, if NCRS is really about "restoration, preservation, and history of the Corvette" as stated in the 1989 Spec Book.

Why doesn't NCRS give allowances in judging for these engines, so as to preserve them, so that history is saved, just like would happen for numerous "special" or "famous" cars? As it is, most are points ahead to remove the CE, and destroy history, to get the judging points.

[Mike Cobine]

Re: Duke I have one.

John,

My understanding is the replacement short block was complete, i.e., had the cam. It should have been ready to bolt the heads and intake on. The ones I've seen were complete shortblocks. In your case of the 302, there would have been no reason to have anything but complete because the 302 wasn't available in different versions based upon a cam change.

[Jack H.]

Re: CE engine - Why no NCRS recognition?

That one gets debated ALL the time and there are both pro and con sides to the issue, Mike....

There is some consistency in the 'madness' of the club's rules. I'll try to explain.

According to the NCRS Judging Reference Manual (white book), Section 2, Rule 2:

"Cars are to be judged to the standard of vehicle appearance, and as equipped, at the time and point of final assembly by the Chevrolet Motor Division of General Motors Corporation. Presentation of judging is to be in the condition normally associated with that of a Corvette which has undergone the then-current standard Chevrolet Dealer New Car Preparation for delivery to a purchaser, exclusive of any dealer or purchaser inspired additions, deletions or changes."

Basically, to set rules you gotta put a stake in the ground. This is where the club sets the shaft today. The replacement of an engine done by the factory, would include making the stamp pad agree with the VIN and the associated warranty cost to repair would have been eaten by the final assy line (no CE engine--a repaired or rebuilt original substitute).

The engine replacement under warranty happened subsequent to initial customer delivery (in MOST ALL cases). So, there's a scoring penalty associated with a CE block. BUT, we automatically give HALF credit for an engine who's block has the correct casting number (Section 4, Standard Deductions, Rule 1)....

Your point about preserving history of the vehicle is well founded. My uncle's 396 had chronic problems with its 3124 carb. It was replaced SEVERAL times. I could have reworked things to make it appear to be right, but I stood my ground and maintained the existing service replacement 3124 carb on the car because it WAS part of that car's history and there were ID marks (rubber stamp on air horn, Etc.) that I wanted to preserve. I took my carb deduction(s) in the spirit of the our rules and lived with it. But, that was my choice....

There are other aspects to the 'as delivered from the factory' rule that have more potential harm to consider! If there were recalls and service campaign repairs to a vehicle, our rules place it in the car's scoring interest to UNDO these changes.... Some of these recall/campaign fixes were initiated by GM in the interest of life, limb, property!!!!