Garage Keep

[Terry M.]

I am planning on contructing a new garage for my car this summer. I live in northeast Pa. and would like to provide for climate control (temperature and humidity). Construction will most likely be masonry block for walls and concrete floor (with sealer). I would like to keep minimal heat during the winter and control the humidity year-round. Would appreciate any information or suggestions.

Thanks,

Terry

[Tom B.]

Re: Garage Keep

Terry,

I just put the finishing touches on my shop and I'm pretty happy with it. I used conventional construction as I added this 950 sq ft. garage onto the original attached 24x24 at an angle. It was necessary that it matched. I have a single insulated double overhead door offset so I have a large work area to the side. I used several floresant lights with the covers on them so the bulbs stay clean, plus under cabinet lights in the work bench area. I also have some adjustable spots on tracks that I'll put up to add extra light where I need it.

For heat I installed a conventional gas forced air furnace with runs over the ceiling and ceiling registers. The furnace will accept A/C when I can convince Mrs. Tom that it is necessary. I used bat fiberglass in the walls and had the ceiling blown in at a depth of 2 ft. Very warm in there and I can leave it turned way down without it getting too cold or the furnace running too often when I'm not out there.

About the only thing I would consider doing different is putting the heat into the floor. I know some guys that have this and it is very even heat plus the floor is warn to lay on to work. The drawback is that you would have to run ducts anyway for the A/C. I'm going out there now to clean up the wood working stuff and I hope to have some digital images to post by the weekend.

Tom

[John H.]

Re: Garage Keep

The floor makeup is critical for moisture control. When I built my "dream" garage two years ago, I laid a heavy Visqueen plastic vapor barrier on the ground, then laid 4'x 8' sheets of 1-1/2" thick high-density closed-cell foam with heavy foil on both sides, then rod and mesh, then poured the floor. When the concrete was fully cured, I had HomePro Floors ( www.homeprofloors.com ) come in and steel shot-blast the concrete (opens up the pores in the "skin"), then apply two separate coats of 2-part industrial epoxy resin (not paint - it's poured and spread with big squeegees); they sprinkle very fine silica sand in the final (color-tinted) coating before it cures for anti-slip. This floor is warm, dry, shiny, absolutely impervious to any automotive chemical, won't chip, hot tires won't lift it or mark it, and it's incredibly easy to keep clean. It also improves lighting efficiency about 50% due to its reflectivity. Best investment I ever made - the insulating foam sheets are about 25 cents/sq. ft., and the HomePro epoxy floor system was $1.82/sq. ft. installed.

The rest is a function of good insulation and vapor barrier installation; my walls and ceiling are finished, the walls are 2x6-framed for maximum insulation space, and I have R-22 in the walls and R-58 in the ceiling. Doors are 1-3/4" thick sectional insulated steel/foam/steel sandwich with thermal breaks and seals between sections, with carefully-applied continuous vinyl exterior perimeter seals. Heat is via a Reznor power-vented forced-air gas overhead unit heater with electronic ignition (no pilot flame). Stays dry and cozy even with outside temperatures in the single-digits with only occasional heat required.

[Gary C.]

Re: Garage Keep

Terry

I live in humid south Louisiana and have looked into the humidity control issue. I do not know what size shop you are considering, but dehumudifying the volume of air that would be require in a "large shop" is far beyond the scope of most hobbists. It is very expensive. You might be able to control humidity in one or two car storage areas with commonly available room dehumidifiers, depending on your climate, insulation, etc.

Otherwise you have recieved very good advice above.

Gary

[Richard W.]

If your budget will allow...

include a 4 post lift. Best money that I ever spent.

[Patrick H.]

The Dream Garage

Terry,

Listen to what John says. I've been to his garage and only wish I had known all of what he says before I built my home 6 years ago. If I ever re-do it I will copy John. Until then, I recommend that you follow his advice for the best workplace you'll ever see.

The only thing I'd change is see if I could have the floor done in black and white squares 'cuz I think they'd be cool looking.

At least I've got the same type of 4-post lift that he's got.

Patrick

[Ed Jennings]

Re: Garage Keep

There have been several references to installing a lift. That may or may not be in your current plans, but one of those things would be very nice to have. With that in mind, if I were constructing a garage I would certainly try to have sufficient headroom to install a lift even if I didn't plan to install one immediately. Most require a 9' ceiling height and 10' or 12' would be even better. Of course, that increases the cubic capacity that you are trying to heat, cool, and dehumidify. My garage has a 8' ceiling, so I am limited to a midheight lift if I ever install one. Bummer.

[Terry M.]

Re: Garage Keep *TL*

Listen to the guys who talk about ceiling height. I did mine at 8.5 feet and it is just too short for a lift. Lifts were not common twenty years ago, so it was not on my agenda.

I would seriously consider something beside masonry block for the walls. I have yet to be in a garage constructed of that material that is not damp.

Terry

[Jerry G.]

Re: Two post versus four

I'm in the process of designing my dream garage and I was planning on putting in a two post lift designed to support the frame and let the suspension hang down. For ease of working on. Why four post vs two??

[Patrick H.]

Re: Two post versus four

Jerry,

1. You can drive on it.

2. You can lift unibody cars with ease (ever see under a C4 or 5?)

3. You can drive under it.

4. You can move it. John Hinckley and I have the Double Park lift with casters. It goes from stable as a rock on the floor to movable in seconds. Absolutely the slickest thing I've ever seen for a lift, and it's what sealed the purchase for this brand.

5. You can access the doors without a post in the way.

6. You can stand on the side rails while working on the car. Right now I'm replacing a head on my 71. I stand on the driver's side rail with the car a few feet off the floor. When I need to get under, I lift it up a few feet and voila - I'm there. I can also lift it way up and use a stool to climb up onto the rail.

7. You can store cars under it, buying the drip pans to place under the top car.

8. Keeping the suspension in the fully lowered position puts a lot of stress on your bushings. That's why, despite the old adage, it's NOT a good idea to put a car "up on blocks."

9. You can buy the jack tray that bridges the side rails if you need to lift the car off its tires to do brake work.

That's all I can think of for now.

Patrick

[Jerry G.]

Re: WOW four is twice as good

I'm convinced! Thanks. I love this board. Theres nothing like "been there done that"

[Gary Bishop]

Re: Garage Height

I have a Superior 4 post lift in a nine foot high garage. I had a box cut in the ceiling up to the roof to add another 2 feet. The cars co up inside the box. There is a photo of this idea on the Superior Lifts web site.

[Mike Yager]

Re: Garage Keep

One thought for humidity and tempature control is to look into the units they sell for wine cellars. I have a friend with a very large cellar and this unit keeps the humidity and tempature at the optimal setting for wine, no matter what the tempature is outside. Not sure how adjustable it is or how big a unit you would need for a garage but it might be worth looking at.

If this works and your wife likes wine maybe you could put some storage racks in the garage and convince her of the need for this :-).

[Larry Low]

Re: Garage Keep - Door Height???

I would assume with a four post lift, consideration would have to be made for the garage door hitting back of car in lifted position. Either having depth in room or modifying door tracks to raise door higher. I gave this some thought on mine and decided I could add app. 2' sections to the side rails which would raise the door to ceiling height to about four inches. I welcome others thoughts on this.
Larry

[Shannon Burgess]

Re: Garage Keep

I'd add the following regarding the 4-post lift. In addition to having the ceiling height to allow stacking of two vehicles, make sure you install a "high-lift" garage door rather than a standard door. The high-lift will travel vertically along the front wall before turning horizontal in the tracks in the "up" position close to the ceiling. A standard door will have the horizontal tracks at about 8 feet high, interfering with the car on the lift when the door is raised. I'm having to pay to convert my standard door to a high-lift in order to accomodate a 4-post lift that's on its way.

Shannon