K19

[John Daly]

A fellow at work is looking at a 67 small block originally from California with K19.(air pump and fittings etc.) All the components seem to be there and in working order. Does K19 add any value ($$$) from a special interest or collectible standpoint? It really doesn't in my opinion, but at least all the components weren't removed as was common back in the day.
Thanks,
John

[Jack H.]

Re: K19

Not really a 'big draw' item....

[Joe L.]

Re: K19

John------

I think what we get into here is the old discussion of "rare" versus "desirable". Certainly, 1967s with K-19 are a lot more "rare" than non-K-19 equipped 1967s. However, the K-19 is not really thought of as a "desirable" option, so it doesn't add any significant value. However, it doesn't detract from value, either. It's kind of a "neutral" feature.

However, what may detract from value is an original K-19 car that is missing its K-19 equipment. That car may be worth less than an equivalent non-K-19 car. That's because the cost to restore it to original configuration is substantial. The 66-67 K-19 systems are VERY expensive; big block versions VERY, VERY expensive.

[Mark Ring]

Re: K19

John,
I was selling some smog stuff recently on ebay and putting together some systems for friends. What I found basicaly was that 67 was California only smog systems and for many years, a person driving in California was forced to have a smog system on thier car because of smog legislation. Everybody that "had to" have smog in California, already had it. That is why it is not that uncommon to see it still installed on an original California car. More recently the laws have changed and now those cars are exempt from mandatory smog equipment so the parts are somewhat more available but realy no big demand for them. Vette specific items may be an exception. Nothing from a 67 will interchange with anything 68 and up so the only market is other California cars being restored that might have left the state or went racing etc. Delaware still requires smog but probably not for 67's.

I picked up a complete 67 Chevelle system recently for only the cost of the postage. The guy just hated smog so much he took it off ASAP and let me have it for free. I doubt it would have much effect on the value of the car either way other than being "interesting".
-Mark.

[Gary S.]

Re: K19

As Jack says, K19 is not considered valuable when compared to cars that were produced without it. On the other hand, the fact that the owner still has the components and it appears to still work may be a sign of the care that this car was given over the last 35 years. Another point is the fact that he has the AIR unit at all. If you really like this car, and it has the options, colors, and condition that you are looking for, then the prescence of K19 equipment can be an asset. It will be valuable in the future if you decide to show the car because AIR components are VERY expensive.
Gary

[Joe L.]

Re: K19

Mark------

One of the things that happened in California is that until about 1984, or so, there was no regular program of "smog inspections" in California. So, prior to that time, many of the "smog pumps" were removed and discarded. No one ever thought that they would have to have them some day. All of a sudden, when biannual smog inspections became a requirement, lots of folks had to "scramble" to come up with the needed pieces. In California, a "a tampered" system automatically fails the test and no tail pipe exhaust measurement is even performed. What's more, for "tampered" systems there is NO cost limit on repairs.

Since, by the mid 80s just about all of the 66-67 AIR pieces were long-since GM-discontinued, the only available pieces were those that folks who had removed them had the foresight to save. Supply and demand being what it is, the prices were and are high. Plus, most of the Corvette pieces, including the pumps, are Corvette-specific. An original 66-67 big block cast iron AIR pump bracket has got to be one of the rarest Corvette parts out there.

[Mark Ring]

California emissions

Joe, do you know how old a car needs to be in California to be exempt from the inspection? I thought it was 30 years but that might be wrong. If it were true, I guess 72 on down would not "require" it for registration, only for restoration.

I have been "toying" with the idea of getting into the smog business but I would not realy want to do it unless I could do it right. Seems to be some market out there and I have a line on some used smog parts. Application/part number information is a bit hard for me to dig up so far.
-Mark.

[Roger Coen #30751]

30 years old is correct!

I'm looking at Chevy Blazers on Ebay and one of the questions I had was just this. I looked it up on the California DMV site.

http://www.dmv.ca.gov

Roger (no luck finding a Blazer yet) Coen

[Joe L.]

Re: California emissions

Mark-----

The exemption is currently applicable to 1973 and older model year vehicles. This exemption has been in place now for about 3 or more years, so, initially, it exempted some vehicles that were not yet 30 years old. In 2002 or 2003 this is supposed to go to a "rolling exemption" in which 30 year old or older vehicles will be exempt. However, there is some talk now of eliminating the "rolling exemption" and just leaving it a "static" exemption for 73 and older vehicles. That hasn't happened yet, but the Air Resources Board has "floated" the idea as a means of "improving the state's air quality and complying with federal regulations".

From the inception of the "Smog Check" program in the mid 80s, vehicles of 1965 and prior model years were always exempt. The more recent exemption just brought in the 66-73 model years.

By the way, it's still illegal in California and under the terms of federal law to tamper with the emissions control system originally installed on ANY vehicle. So, even though the chances of getting caught are much less without the biannual check requirement, the "exemption" ONLY applies to the inspection. The state still uses (and has proposed to increase the use of) road side, remote sensing equipment to identify "gross polluters". Once so-identified, it's my understanding that the vehicle must submit to an inspection regardless of model year.

In my mind, it's totally foolish to modify or remove emissions control equipment.