Lacquer Paint

[John C.]

I second the motion to dump lacquer! *NM*

[John C.]

I second the motion to dump lacquer! *NM*

[Bill W.]

Re: And shouldn't we consider a change?

The new catalized paints are much worse on your health .When isocyanates enter your body through ingestion ,inhalation are absorption they are there forever . That kills you ! If your so worried about the air maybe you should drive something with a converter that gets 20 + miles to the gallon . Its your car put water based house paint on it if you want .Some of us like the satisfaction & challenge of returning our cars to the the way they were built, no better no worse .Bill

[Bill W.]

Re: And shouldn't we consider a change?

The new catalized paints are much worse on your health .When isocyanates enter your body through ingestion ,inhalation are absorption they are there forever . That kills you ! If your so worried about the air maybe you should drive something with a converter that gets 20 + miles to the gallon . Its your car put water based house paint on it if you want .Some of us like the satisfaction & challenge of returning our cars to the the way they were built, no better no worse .Bill

[Bill W.]

Re: And shouldn't we consider a change?

Lets talk about environment . almost no types of paint have lead anymore so we dont have to worry about that. With lacquer you use thinner ,primer,paint. no hardners or isos.what dosent go on the car falls on the floor as dust .about 3 coats of primer & 3 to 5 coats of paint .with urethanes you use adheasion promoters , catalyzed primer.,catalized sealer , catalyzed base coat , catalyzed clear coat.8 to 10 coats total . All very bad for anyone painting or being around the area .At our shop the waste material is then put through a recycle process and the sludge hauled away by a hazardous waste hauler.The paint booth exhaust filters (we dont all paint without filters)are changed once a month . they are also hazardous and must be picked up and hauled to some dump in another state? If you are color sanding all those chemicals are going into your water system or ground water.If you want to see how bad these paints are read a M.S.D.S. sheet.If you are that worried about the enviornment you should have left the original paint on the car.

[Bill W.]

Re: And shouldn't we consider a change?

Lets talk about environment . almost no types of paint have lead anymore so we dont have to worry about that. With lacquer you use thinner ,primer,paint. no hardners or isos.what dosent go on the car falls on the floor as dust .about 3 coats of primer & 3 to 5 coats of paint .with urethanes you use adheasion promoters , catalyzed primer.,catalized sealer , catalyzed base coat , catalyzed clear coat.8 to 10 coats total . All very bad for anyone painting or being around the area .At our shop the waste material is then put through a recycle process and the sludge hauled away by a hazardous waste hauler.The paint booth exhaust filters (we dont all paint without filters)are changed once a month . they are also hazardous and must be picked up and hauled to some dump in another state? If you are color sanding all those chemicals are going into your water system or ground water.If you want to see how bad these paints are read a M.S.D.S. sheet.If you are that worried about the enviornment you should have left the original paint on the car.

[Jack H.]

Sexist?

I've yet to hear of congress/EPA sending storm troupers into the lady's rooms to confisgate fingernail polish! And, hey, we pride ourselves on equal enforcement of the law.... What's wrong with a limited distribution market (let the price float) for historical preservation?

If we think we HAVE to enforce laws equally for ozone friendly, international treaty reasons, just leave the shores of America and see what our fellow signators are doing in Taiwan, the United Kingdom, France, Italy, do I keep on listing the countries where vintage racing and concours d'elegance is a SERIOUS blood sport requiring a continuous, albeit limited, flow of lacquer paint? With foolishness like this (EPA enforcement, mfgr discontinuance, Etc.), all we'll do is EXPORT our SERIOUS restoration/preservation efforts.

[Jack H.]

Sexist?

I've yet to hear of congress/EPA sending storm troupers into the lady's rooms to confisgate fingernail polish! And, hey, we pride ourselves on equal enforcement of the law.... What's wrong with a limited distribution market (let the price float) for historical preservation?

If we think we HAVE to enforce laws equally for ozone friendly, international treaty reasons, just leave the shores of America and see what our fellow signators are doing in Taiwan, the United Kingdom, France, Italy, do I keep on listing the countries where vintage racing and concours d'elegance is a SERIOUS blood sport requiring a continuous, albeit limited, flow of lacquer paint? With foolishness like this (EPA enforcement, mfgr discontinuance, Etc.), all we'll do is EXPORT our SERIOUS restoration/preservation efforts.

[Craig D.]

Re: Sexist?

If the wrong entity reads too many of these threads they may ban all sales of car paints to the garage restorer.There has always been talk, although I do not know how serious,as to making these things available to body shops only.If it is realized how much non filtered spraying may or may not be going on(not that I do know) they could have a panel to decide that issue as well.So,in an imperfect world,be thankful it is not even worse than it currently is, and you can still buy any automotive paint privately at all.You have all seen that the EPA has the power of the IRS and basiclly gets accomplished whatever it decides to.

[Craig D.]

Re: Sexist?

If the wrong entity reads too many of these threads they may ban all sales of car paints to the garage restorer.There has always been talk, although I do not know how serious,as to making these things available to body shops only.If it is realized how much non filtered spraying may or may not be going on(not that I do know) they could have a panel to decide that issue as well.So,in an imperfect world,be thankful it is not even worse than it currently is, and you can still buy any automotive paint privately at all.You have all seen that the EPA has the power of the IRS and basiclly gets accomplished whatever it decides to.

[Mark Ring]

Paper ? or Plastic?

First, I am Pro-Choice on the paint issue. I like having laquer paint available to the Corvette restorer, but I want to throw something up against the wall and see what you guys think.

NCRS judges cars on apearance and function as per delivered to a customer when new. Given that it is difficult for a customer or even a judge to tell the difference between correctly applied and finished Laquer vs. correctly applied more modern finishes without minor invasive testing, I suggest removing just the DEDUCT for finishes that APEAR correct but are non-laquer. If it looks like it should, that could be enough for full credit. This would only apply to "Restored" cars, not survivor cars. This gives the restorer the option to paint it correctly using the materials that are available to him. Laws vary from location to location and this makes it harder for some to compete in the sport. Not exactly a level playing field as it is now. I see little if any harm to the sport by allowing the option without deduct of non-laquer finishes. You could still have the look, but not the problems. If laquer is not availble in the future, which is very possible, What will NCRS do? This is probably only a matter of time here. Give it some consideration.

-Mark.

[Mark Ring]

Paper ? or Plastic?

First, I am Pro-Choice on the paint issue. I like having laquer paint available to the Corvette restorer, but I want to throw something up against the wall and see what you guys think.

NCRS judges cars on apearance and function as per delivered to a customer when new. Given that it is difficult for a customer or even a judge to tell the difference between correctly applied and finished Laquer vs. correctly applied more modern finishes without minor invasive testing, I suggest removing just the DEDUCT for finishes that APEAR correct but are non-laquer. If it looks like it should, that could be enough for full credit. This would only apply to "Restored" cars, not survivor cars. This gives the restorer the option to paint it correctly using the materials that are available to him. Laws vary from location to location and this makes it harder for some to compete in the sport. Not exactly a level playing field as it is now. I see little if any harm to the sport by allowing the option without deduct of non-laquer finishes. You could still have the look, but not the problems. If laquer is not availble in the future, which is very possible, What will NCRS do? This is probably only a matter of time here. Give it some consideration.

-Mark.

[Mike G.]

I'd go for that

Let me be clear, I'm also pro-choice on this issue (and the other issue, for that matter ). My only argument is that we (NCRS) REQUIRE lacquer when there are so many of us who, for good reason, prefer not to use it. You want lacquer? By all means, I sincerely think it should be available. But for those of us who think our environmental woes aren't just the fault of OTHER people and OTHER countries, we should have the option without the deduct.

- Mike Greene

[Mike G.]

I'd go for that

Let me be clear, I'm also pro-choice on this issue (and the other issue, for that matter ). My only argument is that we (NCRS) REQUIRE lacquer when there are so many of us who, for good reason, prefer not to use it. You want lacquer? By all means, I sincerely think it should be available. But for those of us who think our environmental woes aren't just the fault of OTHER people and OTHER countries, we should have the option without the deduct.

- Mike Greene

[Mike G.]

It doesn't work that way

You're confusing the effects of ISOs and VOCs. New paints have isocyanates (ISOs) which are indeed very poisonous, but for the most part, dissipate and become harmless. Lacquer, on the other hand, releases a much higher level of VOCs than modern urethanes, etc. These Volatile Organic Compounds (VOCs) are what cause smog and global warming, not the ISOs.

So the EPA and individual states mandated lower VOC paints and HVLP (High Volume Low Pressure) paint systems. HVLP also yields fewer airborne pollutants because more paint sticks to the car instead of bouncing back off of it (because of the lower pressure). I actually prefer the HVLP system, because I get less orange peal since there's far less overspray.

And thanks for the helpful advice to use house latex on my cars! Unfortunately, I already started with urethane and my local auto paint store didn't have any rollers anyway!

- Mike Greene