While paging through the AIM, I noticed there is no sheet E 3.00. Looking further, there seems to be no sheet 9 1.00, either. Have I lost these, or were there no such pages?
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Re: An odd 56-57 AIM question...
Dave:
There are several pages missing and many more unreadable in the 56/57 AIM manual. I have purchased these manuals from both NCRS and Mid-America, have also had the oppotunity to review same from other vendors. All of these seem to suffer the same short commings. Everytime I have inquired about missing/unreadable pages the answer has been basically the same. "What you've got is all there is." "The quality has deteriorated over time from so many copies being made."
This answer has steamed me more than once as when you think about it there were only about 12000 of these cars built 56&57. You know for fact that there had to have been several original manuals printed. Considering the number of these cars that were wrecked, raced and in general junked and given that at least the first 20 years of life for most of these cars was spent in deterioration. Just how many people would one estimate were interested in restoring these cars ?
Those selling these manuals would lead one to believe that all of these copies were made by taking copies from a single original and then copies were taken from those copies with this secenario repeating itself many times over the years. Thus making a copy from a poorly produced previous copy results in an even poorer copy. Wouldn't some one somewhere along the line see that there were unreadable pages ? Or were the pages even being looked at by any one other than the end purchaser who had no recourse when given one of these flimsy answers.
Personally I thought that was what the NCRS was all about. Preserving and restoring these cars requires accurate and concise information. So if an organization is going to stand for the preservation of the cars then it must also stand for the preservation of the documentation to support restorations.
I have met and talked via phone email etc. to many honest, intelligent and knowledgeable owners of 56-57 that have a wealth of information stored in their memories and most of them are more than happy to share their knowledge. Unfortunately mixed in with that knowledge is quite a mixed bag of oppinions, ranging from great idea to sometimes not so great, on how to achieve a goal. As I've seen many times this also seems to spill over into the judging of these cars being based on the indivual judges oppinion at a given time. For example I personally witnessed the same judge give totally conflicting results on the same item on the same car in less than a two year time span. I don't believe this was malicious but rather a change in oppinion or maybe an increase/decrease in knowledge of the particular item.
This seems to be where the problem begins, in that although the info maybe difficult to find and decipher at least most of it is available, but for how long. How much is being lost in the translations and passing down of this information from those in the know to those seeking the knowledge. From my many discussions with owner/reastorers of these cars I fear that a fair amount of valuable information on details has already been lost.
I believe that some where some one or some organization has either an original or at least a readable copy of those missing and unreadable pages. What is needed is for this info to be located the missing and unreadable pages duplicated or replicated as neccessary. There is even a lot of information that was never in these manuals that should be added in the interest of preservation. If the end result were an increase in the price of the manuals and/or the purchase of an update to existing manuals then so be it, as the cost of research would need to be met somehow.
One thing for sure time is against us the longer this situation continues the more information is going to be lost or distorted. Sorry for the soap box, probrably a simple yes would have sufficed. -
Re: An odd 56-57 AIM question...
Dave:
There are several pages missing and many more unreadable in the 56/57 AIM manual. I have purchased these manuals from both NCRS and Mid-America, have also had the oppotunity to review same from other vendors. All of these seem to suffer the same short commings. Everytime I have inquired about missing/unreadable pages the answer has been basically the same. "What you've got is all there is." "The quality has deteriorated over time from so many copies being made."
This answer has steamed me more than once as when you think about it there were only about 12000 of these cars built 56&57. You know for fact that there had to have been several original manuals printed. Considering the number of these cars that were wrecked, raced and in general junked and given that at least the first 20 years of life for most of these cars was spent in deterioration. Just how many people would one estimate were interested in restoring these cars ?
Those selling these manuals would lead one to believe that all of these copies were made by taking copies from a single original and then copies were taken from those copies with this secenario repeating itself many times over the years. Thus making a copy from a poorly produced previous copy results in an even poorer copy. Wouldn't some one somewhere along the line see that there were unreadable pages ? Or were the pages even being looked at by any one other than the end purchaser who had no recourse when given one of these flimsy answers.
Personally I thought that was what the NCRS was all about. Preserving and restoring these cars requires accurate and concise information. So if an organization is going to stand for the preservation of the cars then it must also stand for the preservation of the documentation to support restorations.
I have met and talked via phone email etc. to many honest, intelligent and knowledgeable owners of 56-57 that have a wealth of information stored in their memories and most of them are more than happy to share their knowledge. Unfortunately mixed in with that knowledge is quite a mixed bag of oppinions, ranging from great idea to sometimes not so great, on how to achieve a goal. As I've seen many times this also seems to spill over into the judging of these cars being based on the indivual judges oppinion at a given time. For example I personally witnessed the same judge give totally conflicting results on the same item on the same car in less than a two year time span. I don't believe this was malicious but rather a change in oppinion or maybe an increase/decrease in knowledge of the particular item.
This seems to be where the problem begins, in that although the info maybe difficult to find and decipher at least most of it is available, but for how long. How much is being lost in the translations and passing down of this information from those in the know to those seeking the knowledge. From my many discussions with owner/reastorers of these cars I fear that a fair amount of valuable information on details has already been lost.
I believe that some where some one or some organization has either an original or at least a readable copy of those missing and unreadable pages. What is needed is for this info to be located the missing and unreadable pages duplicated or replicated as neccessary. There is even a lot of information that was never in these manuals that should be added in the interest of preservation. If the end result were an increase in the price of the manuals and/or the purchase of an update to existing manuals then so be it, as the cost of research would need to be met somehow.
One thing for sure time is against us the longer this situation continues the more information is going to be lost or distorted. Sorry for the soap box, probrably a simple yes would have sufficed.Comment
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Re: An odd 56-57 AIM question...
Dave,
Thanks to John Hinckley, Section E, Sheet 3 is known. I will send you a copy as an JPG attachment to your e-mail address, Regards,Comment
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Re: An odd 56-57 AIM question...
Dave,
Thanks to John Hinckley, Section E, Sheet 3 is known. I will send you a copy as an JPG attachment to your e-mail address, Regards,Comment
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Re: An odd 56-57 AIM question...
Thanks, Jim, but the real credit for unearthing Section E, Sheet 3 belongs to Art Armstrong, who liberated it from old microfiche archives for me by "stealth" (don't ask, don't tell) methodsComment
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Re: An odd 56-57 AIM question...
Thanks, Jim, but the real credit for unearthing Section E, Sheet 3 belongs to Art Armstrong, who liberated it from old microfiche archives for me by "stealth" (don't ask, don't tell) methodsComment
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Re: An odd 56-57 AIM question...
Dave -
I have Section 9, Sheet 1.00 if you want it; it's an index sheet (no part numbers) which tells which steering-related areas are on which detail sheet (2, 3, 4, and 5).Comment
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Re: An odd 56-57 AIM question...
Dave -
I have Section 9, Sheet 1.00 if you want it; it's an index sheet (no part numbers) which tells which steering-related areas are on which detail sheet (2, 3, 4, and 5).Comment
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Re: An odd 56-57 AIM question...
Is there any chance I can get a copy of this page as my section 9, page 1 is also missing? Thanks
BrianComment
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Re: An odd 56-57 AIM question...
Is there any chance I can get a copy of this page as my section 9, page 1 is also missing? Thanks
BrianComment
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Re: An odd 56-57 AIM question...
Further to my previous post - sorry, my error, should be section E, Sheet 3 is missing. Appreciate a copy please. Thanks
BrianComment
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Re: An odd 56-57 AIM question...
Further to my previous post - sorry, my error, should be section E, Sheet 3 is missing. Appreciate a copy please. Thanks
BrianComment
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Re: An odd 56-57 AIM question...
Brian -
You and Dave have mail....Comment
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Re: An odd 56-57 AIM question...
Brian -
You and Dave have mail....Comment
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