Corvette Lingo - short block - long block. *TL*

[John W.]

I had a request the other day for a definition of short block and long block on the NCRS Corvette Lingo page. I have not been able to find a formal definition. I think I know the definition but would like some feedback to see if I am correct or not.

Short Block
Replacement engine that includes only the block, crank, connecting rods, pistons, and cam shaft. It is all assembled and ready for heads and valve train components, intake manifold, carburetor or fuel injection, timing chain and cover, exhaust manifolds, and other items too numerous to mention.

Long Block
Replacement engine assembly includes heads and valve train components. Timing chain and water pump are also included. Intake manifold and carburetor or fuel injection not included.

Are there any mistakes or items left out? Another question is about what I call a target engine. My understanding is that this is a more complete engine than a Long Block. I am not sure if this is just a GM term, or is it generic? Should it be included on the lingo page?

Thanks

[Ed Jennings]

Re: Corvette Lingo - short block - long block.

John, on so called long blocks I have seen, the timing chain and gears were present, but not the cover or water pump. I think the terms target engine and crate engine are used more or less interchangeably, but there may be a difference in these too. Different crate engines I have looked at were complete from pan to carb in some cases, and in others only the intake was installed. (No carb or FI). I know you didn't ask about crate engines, but the point is that the defination may vary with manufacturer and from engine to engine.

[Ed Jennings]

Re: Corvette Lingo - short block - long block.

John, on so called long blocks I have seen, the timing chain and gears were present, but not the cover or water pump. I think the terms target engine and crate engine are used more or less interchangeably, but there may be a difference in these too. Different crate engines I have looked at were complete from pan to carb in some cases, and in others only the intake was installed. (No carb or FI). I know you didn't ask about crate engines, but the point is that the defination may vary with manufacturer and from engine to engine.

[John H.]

Re: Corvette Lingo - short block - long block.

John -

You'll probably get several interpretations on this one - here's mine.

There were only two GM terms - "Partial Engine", which is essentially the same as your definition of a "Short Block" (which is common generic terminology), and a "Fitted Block", which was a block with fitted pistons, pins, rings, and bearings. The "Fitted Block" was pretty much a GM term, with little "generic" application in the aftermarket. The GM "Partial Engine" included timing gears and chain, but no timing cover, oil pump, or oil pan.

"Long Block" is common aftermarket terminology, but generally doesn't include a water pump (not generally included due to differing rotation direction depending on V-belt vs. serpentine belt accessory drive system to be swapped or added), and usually includes the oil pan and crank damper. I think the closest thing GM offers to what we like to call a "Long Block" is the "Targetmaster" line.

The "Targetmaster" line are replacement generic low-performance engine assemblies very similar in configuration to what we call a "Long Block".

The various "Crate Engines" came along later, and were more complete, usually including intake, water pump, flywheel or flexplate, and distributor; some include a carburetor, and the new "Ramjet" includes a unique GM Performance Parts fuel injection system not used in production.

[John H.]

Re: Corvette Lingo - short block - long block.

John -

You'll probably get several interpretations on this one - here's mine.

There were only two GM terms - "Partial Engine", which is essentially the same as your definition of a "Short Block" (which is common generic terminology), and a "Fitted Block", which was a block with fitted pistons, pins, rings, and bearings. The "Fitted Block" was pretty much a GM term, with little "generic" application in the aftermarket. The GM "Partial Engine" included timing gears and chain, but no timing cover, oil pump, or oil pan.

"Long Block" is common aftermarket terminology, but generally doesn't include a water pump (not generally included due to differing rotation direction depending on V-belt vs. serpentine belt accessory drive system to be swapped or added), and usually includes the oil pan and crank damper. I think the closest thing GM offers to what we like to call a "Long Block" is the "Targetmaster" line.

The "Targetmaster" line are replacement generic low-performance engine assemblies very similar in configuration to what we call a "Long Block".

The various "Crate Engines" came along later, and were more complete, usually including intake, water pump, flywheel or flexplate, and distributor; some include a carburetor, and the new "Ramjet" includes a unique GM Performance Parts fuel injection system not used in production.

[Joe L.]

Re: Corvette Lingo - short block - long block.

John-----

I generally agree with John and Ed. There is no precise definition of "short block" and "long block"; the components may vary to some degree depending upon the "interpretation" of the manufacturer and the intended application. VERY generally, a long block is the same thing as a short block except WITH cylinder heads. A few additional components, such as an oil pan, oil pump, and timing cover may be included with the long block, though.

The term SERVICE ENGINE ASSEMBLY has an even wider range of possibilities, including:

1) "Targetmaster"---This is a GM term for a low performance, replacement engine assembly designed to compete with "rebuilt" engines. They offer all new components, but the components are a mix of PRODUCTION and NON-PRODUCTION pieces. The complete assemblies are NOT the same as any engine used in PRODUCTION and are not validated to the same standards as a PRODUCTION engine. Many parts may need to be transferred from the replaced engine. Primarily, they're intended for low budget engine replacements for older cars that someone needs to get 50,000 more reliable miles out of;

2) SERVICE engine----This is an engine assembly which is composed of all PRODUCTION pieces and is configured the same as a PRODUCTION configuration. It usually lacks some of the peripheral components which must be transferred from the replaced engine or otherwise acquired. When completed, it will have the same configuration as the replaced engine.

3) GM Performance Parts Engine Assembly-----This is a high performance SERVICE engine assembly usually configured differently than any available PRODUCTION engines. It is composed of PRODUCTION and GMPP components;

4) PRODUCTION ENGINE ASSEMBLY----This is a full-dressed PRODUCTION engine, just as delivered to the vehicle assembly plants, which is sold through SERVICE. These are exactly the same as the engine installed in passenger cars or trucks. PRODUCTION engine assemblies are usually only available during the current model year or until GMSPO inventory of the PRODUCTION engines is exhausted.

[Joe L.]

Re: Corvette Lingo - short block - long block.

John-----

I generally agree with John and Ed. There is no precise definition of "short block" and "long block"; the components may vary to some degree depending upon the "interpretation" of the manufacturer and the intended application. VERY generally, a long block is the same thing as a short block except WITH cylinder heads. A few additional components, such as an oil pan, oil pump, and timing cover may be included with the long block, though.

The term SERVICE ENGINE ASSEMBLY has an even wider range of possibilities, including:

1) "Targetmaster"---This is a GM term for a low performance, replacement engine assembly designed to compete with "rebuilt" engines. They offer all new components, but the components are a mix of PRODUCTION and NON-PRODUCTION pieces. The complete assemblies are NOT the same as any engine used in PRODUCTION and are not validated to the same standards as a PRODUCTION engine. Many parts may need to be transferred from the replaced engine. Primarily, they're intended for low budget engine replacements for older cars that someone needs to get 50,000 more reliable miles out of;

2) SERVICE engine----This is an engine assembly which is composed of all PRODUCTION pieces and is configured the same as a PRODUCTION configuration. It usually lacks some of the peripheral components which must be transferred from the replaced engine or otherwise acquired. When completed, it will have the same configuration as the replaced engine.

3) GM Performance Parts Engine Assembly-----This is a high performance SERVICE engine assembly usually configured differently than any available PRODUCTION engines. It is composed of PRODUCTION and GMPP components;

4) PRODUCTION ENGINE ASSEMBLY----This is a full-dressed PRODUCTION engine, just as delivered to the vehicle assembly plants, which is sold through SERVICE. These are exactly the same as the engine installed in passenger cars or trucks. PRODUCTION engine assemblies are usually only available during the current model year or until GMSPO inventory of the PRODUCTION engines is exhausted.

[Gerry Proctor]

Re: Corvette Lingo - short block - long block.

It has also been my experience that short and long block definitions are somewhat meaningless without an inventory description. For instance, depending on what jobber you're dealing with, a short block doesn't always include the cam and timing assembly. I've never seen a long block that included the engine tin, but you also can't say they don't come with the oiling system. I've purchased short blocks that included a new oil pump (though, not attached) as a warranty precaution. The only thing I've found that is absolute is that a short block does not include the cylinder head(s). One thing I learned the hard way is do not send your core engine back until you have configured it as a mirror image of the replacement engine down to the last nut and bolt.

[Gerry Proctor]

Re: Corvette Lingo - short block - long block.

It has also been my experience that short and long block definitions are somewhat meaningless without an inventory description. For instance, depending on what jobber you're dealing with, a short block doesn't always include the cam and timing assembly. I've never seen a long block that included the engine tin, but you also can't say they don't come with the oiling system. I've purchased short blocks that included a new oil pump (though, not attached) as a warranty precaution. The only thing I've found that is absolute is that a short block does not include the cylinder head(s). One thing I learned the hard way is do not send your core engine back until you have configured it as a mirror image of the replacement engine down to the last nut and bolt.

[Dale Pearman]

Re: Corvette Lingo - short block - long block.

I thought it was, "short cylinder case" and, "long cylinder case".

Dale.

[Dale Pearman]

Re: Corvette Lingo - short block - long block.

I thought it was, "short cylinder case" and, "long cylinder case".

Dale.

[Tom B.]

Re: Corvette Lingo - short block - long block.

From my GM parts experience I'm also familiar with the fitted blocks and partial engines that John speaks of. The long block is an aftermarket rebuilder item. As has been said, it will include more or less components depending on the vender. Water pumps, pans and covers are rare on a long block. They are generally considered to be reusable parts with the rest of the external items. A GM partial engine would be considered a short block in the aftermarket.

Tom

[Tom B.]

Re: Corvette Lingo - short block - long block.

From my GM parts experience I'm also familiar with the fitted blocks and partial engines that John speaks of. The long block is an aftermarket rebuilder item. As has been said, it will include more or less components depending on the vender. Water pumps, pans and covers are rare on a long block. They are generally considered to be reusable parts with the rest of the external items. A GM partial engine would be considered a short block in the aftermarket.

Tom

[John W.]

Thanks: Corvette Lingo - short block - long block. *TL*

I will try to incorporate all of the responses into a generic definition. There doesn't seem to be a concrete definition.

John

[John W.]

Thanks: Corvette Lingo - short block - long block. *TL*

I will try to incorporate all of the responses into a generic definition. There doesn't seem to be a concrete definition.

John