Lacquer paint help--- PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!!!!

[Keith B.]

I have a painter who has been in the business 40 plus years. I supplied him with some Dupont Lucite that once he began to spray we found out that it was separating with tiny flecks of orange (67 Rally Red) being spit through the gun even after triple filtering. The paint store sugessted that the tint might have been old and actually was coming out of suspension. Replaced with R-M Acrylic Lacquer (BASF)ALPHA-CRYL basecoat and was told to color sand with 1200 and buff with a low grit compound. The paint does not look like lacquer!!! It almost looks like enamal. Fortunately, only the hardtop has been painted (we were using as a test panel). The paint when viewed close up it appears to have micro pin holes that you can see. The surface is pretty shiny and smooth to the touch but not that nice lacquer you think of. This is called a basecoat and refers to the clear coat to be applied after the color. I have a lot rapped up into this paint job to do it in lacquer and did not expect to have to put clear over the top. What is going on??? Do I have the wrong product? The paint store is suggesting that we go 50/50 clear/color and then sand with 1200. Something seems wrong. Is this what everyone is doing to get the correct finish? I told the painter that I would get a good answer for him by tomarrow. Please Respond only if you can help.
Thanks
Keith

[Bill W.]

Re: Lacquer paint help--- PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!!!!

Go back to dupont . have them mix more paint & open a new can of the bad mixing color.If the mixing color is bad they should not charge you .When using lacquer the paint should be shaken for at least 20 minutes before mixing also use a high grade dupont lacquer thinner .there is NO reason to use clear on a solid color .Bill

[Bill W.]

Re: Lacquer paint help--- PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!!!!

Go back to dupont . have them mix more paint & open a new can of the bad mixing color.If the mixing color is bad they should not charge you .When using lacquer the paint should be shaken for at least 20 minutes before mixing also use a high grade dupont lacquer thinner .there is NO reason to use clear on a solid color .Bill

[Duke W.]

Re: Lacquer paint help--- PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!!!!

Agree with Bill. Don't pay any attention to what the paint store says. Have them put you in contact with their Dupont rep and go from there. Escalate it up the chain until you get to the tech people who know what's going on.

duke

[Duke W.]

Re: Lacquer paint help--- PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!!!!

Agree with Bill. Don't pay any attention to what the paint store says. Have them put you in contact with their Dupont rep and go from there. Escalate it up the chain until you get to the tech people who know what's going on.

duke

[G B.]

DuPont ? No thanks.

I used DuPont lacquer extensively in the past, but I don't now. They no longer make some of the tint colors that were used in the sixties formulas, so they substitute offset colors. I don't know for sure about the red you're using. I do know that '66 maroon and '67 yellow have been changed. My local DuPont rep doesn't stock lacquer tinting colors any more. They will order mixed gallons from PA for me if I will accept the current tint offsets. Uh... no.

Automotive lacquer should not require a clear top coat. I would shoot more of the color on a metal scrap panel to see if it pinholes. You should be 100% certain you're not getting a reaction from the fiberglass or surface prep before you go back to the paint store to complain about the BASF lacquer batch.

[G B.]

DuPont ? No thanks.

I used DuPont lacquer extensively in the past, but I don't now. They no longer make some of the tint colors that were used in the sixties formulas, so they substitute offset colors. I don't know for sure about the red you're using. I do know that '66 maroon and '67 yellow have been changed. My local DuPont rep doesn't stock lacquer tinting colors any more. They will order mixed gallons from PA for me if I will accept the current tint offsets. Uh... no.

Automotive lacquer should not require a clear top coat. I would shoot more of the color on a metal scrap panel to see if it pinholes. You should be 100% certain you're not getting a reaction from the fiberglass or surface prep before you go back to the paint store to complain about the BASF lacquer batch.

[John M.]

Re: DuPont ? No thanks.

I agree with Jerry, Dupont has quit mixing lacquer entirely in my area, but have had real good sucess with PPG lacquer which is code DDL and goes by the name duracryl. Their color matches are real good except their metallics have a little finer metallic particles. They have a real good fax-on-demand system for product application info and technical data at; 1-800-450-2654. John

[John M.]

Re: DuPont ? No thanks.

I agree with Jerry, Dupont has quit mixing lacquer entirely in my area, but have had real good sucess with PPG lacquer which is code DDL and goes by the name duracryl. Their color matches are real good except their metallics have a little finer metallic particles. They have a real good fax-on-demand system for product application info and technical data at; 1-800-450-2654. John

[TLSmith]

DO NOT CLEAR COAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kieth:

The only time you would ever need to clear coat lacquer is over custom applications where multiple colors/designs were used and super smooth show finish is desired. These clear coated paint jobs have a short life span in sun light(UV rays)look terrible when deteriation sets in require complete stripping to refinish.

I have used lacquer on vettes and custom applications for over 45 years with little problem. Most problems I have ever seen have been the result of prep. Is your painter using a spray gun dedicated to lacquer only? A seperate dedicated gun should also be used for black and red. If not what happens is the solvents in lacquer are so much stronger than used in other paints (enamels/urthanes etc.) they actually bust loose particles inside the gun that even gun cleanes don't touch. Have always had seperate guns for each type of paint.

The pin holes you describe sound more like fish eye. Again prep in question. Any oil/grease/wax even in the air can cause this. Most paint suppliers sell fish eye killer to eliminate this when all else fails but correct prep procedures are utmost. Any good how to paint book or custom paint shop will explain the importance/pitfalls in prep work.

While it is true that Dupont has substituted some tint colors this is not a new situation as through the years every thing has changed in one way or another. However Dupont still makes an excelent product as does PPG (duracryl), Ditzler etc. I also get a lot of lacquer and custom colors from house of colors. Don't have number handy but they have ads in all the popular street/hot rod mags.

Hope this helps, let us in on the results. tom

[TLSmith]

DO NOT CLEAR COAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kieth:

The only time you would ever need to clear coat lacquer is over custom applications where multiple colors/designs were used and super smooth show finish is desired. These clear coated paint jobs have a short life span in sun light(UV rays)look terrible when deteriation sets in require complete stripping to refinish.

I have used lacquer on vettes and custom applications for over 45 years with little problem. Most problems I have ever seen have been the result of prep. Is your painter using a spray gun dedicated to lacquer only? A seperate dedicated gun should also be used for black and red. If not what happens is the solvents in lacquer are so much stronger than used in other paints (enamels/urthanes etc.) they actually bust loose particles inside the gun that even gun cleanes don't touch. Have always had seperate guns for each type of paint.

The pin holes you describe sound more like fish eye. Again prep in question. Any oil/grease/wax even in the air can cause this. Most paint suppliers sell fish eye killer to eliminate this when all else fails but correct prep procedures are utmost. Any good how to paint book or custom paint shop will explain the importance/pitfalls in prep work.

While it is true that Dupont has substituted some tint colors this is not a new situation as through the years every thing has changed in one way or another. However Dupont still makes an excelent product as does PPG (duracryl), Ditzler etc. I also get a lot of lacquer and custom colors from house of colors. Don't have number handy but they have ads in all the popular street/hot rod mags.

Hope this helps, let us in on the results. tom

[Paul Premer #8304]

Re: Lacquer paint help--- PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!!!!

It sounds as if your problem with the second application of R-M may be that you are not using coarse enough paper to cut the orange peel, (etc.) out before buffing.
I recommend using 600 grit and a block or hard pad to cut the surface flat first (much the same as planning wood before sanding). After the imperfections are gone, then use 1200 to remove the 600 scratches. Then buff with rough cut compound and wool pad.
Then buff with fine compound and foam pad. Then use swirl remover and foam pad.
If you would like more detail you can call me at: 970-339-5757 or 970-381-9557 cell.
Paul

[Paul Premer #8304]

Re: Lacquer paint help--- PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!!!!

It sounds as if your problem with the second application of R-M may be that you are not using coarse enough paper to cut the orange peel, (etc.) out before buffing.
I recommend using 600 grit and a block or hard pad to cut the surface flat first (much the same as planning wood before sanding). After the imperfections are gone, then use 1200 to remove the 600 scratches. Then buff with rough cut compound and wool pad.
Then buff with fine compound and foam pad. Then use swirl remover and foam pad.
If you would like more detail you can call me at: 970-339-5757 or 970-381-9557 cell.
Paul