Midyear 091 coil useage

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  • Duke Williams (22045)
    Beyond Control Poster
    • January 1, 1993
    • 15229

    #1

    Midyear 091 coil useage

    There is a lot of confusion on the usage of the 1115091 coil on '63 and '64 Corvettes, and part of the problem is that the JG has is wrong - or at least does not tell the complete story. It is also important to understand that various coils were also used with specific ballast resistors. The coil/ballast combinations are essentially matched pairs to provide as designed ignition system performance.

    Please note that I am only discussing 091 coil useage on '63 and '64 models as I have insufficient documentation to discuss 091 coil useage prior to 1963.

    All Corvette engines during EARLY 1963 production used the 091 coil in conjunction with the 1931385 (0.3 ohm) ballast resistor. This combination provided maximum primary current and spark energy, but it was tough on points and burned points became a serious enough problem with this combination (happened to me) that Chevrolet Engineering made some interim changes during the 1963 model year.

    TSB DR 577, February 27, 1963 advises that beginning February 4, 1963, a different ballast resistor 1957154 (1.8 ohm) entered production for 250 and 300 HP engines, ONLY.

    This change is also documented on the change record of the requisite AIM sheet (Section 6 Sheet C7.00). Also, simultaneous with the change in ballast is a change from the 091 to the 1115087 coil. Bear in mind that this sheet is for the base engine, so any changes to RPO engines must be determined by reviewing the appropriate engine RPO sections. A review these sections in the '63 AIM does not support the TSB statment that the production change(s) only affected 250 and 300 HP engines.

    The L-75/L-76 section does not show any change to the coil or ballast from base production, but L-84 Sheet 7.00 shows the coil as the 087 part. This sheet was released on May 6, 1963 and added to the AIM, and I believe the coil specification is wrong! Utilization specified by the Corvette Parts Catalog for the 154 resistor is '63-'64 (second design) except SHP/FI. The 385 resistor is '63 (first design) except SHP/FI and '63-'64 with SHP/FI. This may seem confusing at first - you have to have some experience working with the Parts Catalog. I sometimes helps if you're good at figuring out riddles, so trust me, it says that all early '63 engines used the 385 ballast while all but SHP and FI changed in mid '63 to the 154 ballast. Ballast usage is important because they were matched to the specific coils. My Parts Catalogs are seventies vintage so the 202 coil is listed as the service replacement part for all point ignitions. I submit my March 19 built SHP as evidence in support of the TSB and Parts Catalog that SHP/FI engines continued to use the 091/385 combination.

    BTW, the TSB suggests that SHP/FI engines be changed to the 154 ballast in cold weather (Yeah, right, like you're going to have a "winter" ballast and a "summer" ballast.), but adds that the 385 ballast will provide the best possible high speed igntion performance. The burned points problem was particularly acute in cold weather because the ballast resistance varies with temperature - the colder the temp. the lower the resistance, so burned points was a particular problem in cold winter climates.

    Perhaps someone with a '64 AIM could research the appropriate sheets to confirm that coil/ballast utilization is as stated in the Parts Catalog - 087/154 on 250/300 HP engines and 091/385 on SHP/FI engines.

    In 1965 this issue became moot as the 1115202 coil and 154 ballast were used for all point ignition applications until the advent of the resistor wire in the harness.

    BTW the service bulletin states that the service resistors are identified by a blue stripe (154) and a black dot (385), but I am still not convinced that the resistors shipped to and used by the plant were so marked.

    Duke
  • Dale Pearman

    #2
    Re: Midyear 091 coil useage

    C1 combinations were a ballast of 0.3 ohms and 091 coils. The FI Corvettes used a 107 coil. I have never been able to distingush the electrical differences between an 091 and a 107 coil. They are the same except for part number as far as my limited measurement capability allows.

    I am under the impression that the dot vs stripe argument pertains ONLY to service replacements. Production resistors were not marked.

    Dale.

    Comment

    • Dale Pearman

      #3
      Re: Midyear 091 coil useage

      C1 combinations were a ballast of 0.3 ohms and 091 coils. The FI Corvettes used a 107 coil. I have never been able to distingush the electrical differences between an 091 and a 107 coil. They are the same except for part number as far as my limited measurement capability allows.

      I am under the impression that the dot vs stripe argument pertains ONLY to service replacements. Production resistors were not marked.

      Dale.

      Comment

      • Duke Williams (22045)
        Beyond Control Poster
        • January 1, 1993
        • 15229

        #4
        Re: Midyear 091 coil useage

        Thanks for the C1 utilization, Dale. The Parts Catalog lists the 1931385 0.3 ohm ballast for all C1s with 12V systems, but the 202 coil is listed as the service replacement for all 12V point ignition system applications back to '55.

        From all the evidence I have, in production, the 385 ballast was always mated with the 091 (or 107) coil and the 087 coil was mated with the 1.8 ohm 1957154 ballast.

        Being as how the 385/091 combination was used for many years prior to '63, it's not clear to me why burned points didn't become an issue until 1963, but it might have something to do with ballast location. Could be that the ballast ran cooler on C2s, which would mean higher peak and average primary current.

        Duke

        Comment

        • Duke Williams (22045)
          Beyond Control Poster
          • January 1, 1993
          • 15229

          #5
          Re: Midyear 091 coil useage

          Thanks for the C1 utilization, Dale. The Parts Catalog lists the 1931385 0.3 ohm ballast for all C1s with 12V systems, but the 202 coil is listed as the service replacement for all 12V point ignition system applications back to '55.

          From all the evidence I have, in production, the 385 ballast was always mated with the 091 (or 107) coil and the 087 coil was mated with the 1.8 ohm 1957154 ballast.

          Being as how the 385/091 combination was used for many years prior to '63, it's not clear to me why burned points didn't become an issue until 1963, but it might have something to do with ballast location. Could be that the ballast ran cooler on C2s, which would mean higher peak and average primary current.

          Duke

          Comment

          • Ed Jennings

            #6
            Re: Midyear 091 coil useage

            When the 63 came along they were suddenly making 20,000+ units a year vs 10,000 a year. That was twice as many customers to complain. The wheel finally squeaked loud enough to get grease. That may have nothing to do with the actual reason, but it sounds plausable.

            Comment

            • Ed Jennings

              #7
              Re: Midyear 091 coil useage

              When the 63 came along they were suddenly making 20,000+ units a year vs 10,000 a year. That was twice as many customers to complain. The wheel finally squeaked loud enough to get grease. That may have nothing to do with the actual reason, but it sounds plausable.

              Comment

              • John McGraw (31656)
                Expired
                • January 1, 1999
                • 8

                #8
                Re: Midyear 091 coil useage

                Duke, I think that the points problem showed itself before 63. My 60 had a 1.8 ohm resistor and I never knew it until a couple of weeks ago. The car drove well and never showed any problems even in hot weather. My guess is that the pvevious owner had points problems with the car and probably had it replaced with the 1.8 to extend point life.The car had never had much of anything replaced on it and definately had never been "restored", so the only two possibilities are that the resistor failed or he replaced it for point life considerations. The original owner had owned it since high school and pretty much did nothing but put oil and gas in it and he drove it until it quit. Then he parked it for 16 years until I bought it. John

                Comment

                • John McGraw (31656)
                  Expired
                  • January 1, 1999
                  • 8

                  #9
                  Re: Midyear 091 coil useage

                  Duke, I think that the points problem showed itself before 63. My 60 had a 1.8 ohm resistor and I never knew it until a couple of weeks ago. The car drove well and never showed any problems even in hot weather. My guess is that the pvevious owner had points problems with the car and probably had it replaced with the 1.8 to extend point life.The car had never had much of anything replaced on it and definately had never been "restored", so the only two possibilities are that the resistor failed or he replaced it for point life considerations. The original owner had owned it since high school and pretty much did nothing but put oil and gas in it and he drove it until it quit. Then he parked it for 16 years until I bought it. John

                  Comment

                  • Jack Humphrey (17100)
                    Extremely Frequent Poster
                    • April 1, 1990
                    • 9893

                    #10
                    Why?

                    Do the drawings for both ballast resistors referenced (initially released in 1954 era) specifically call out the blue stripe/black dot ID marks and a review of the Revision History on these drawings shows NO change reference(s) related to the color coding identification marks?

                    The PN of these resistors is the same for service spare use as it was for final assy production. If there was a need for specific visual ID anywhere, it'd be reasonable to expect it on the assy line where, as the prior thread documents, there WERE periods of both R's being used in the same plant at the same time....

                    Comment

                    • Jack Humphrey (17100)
                      Extremely Frequent Poster
                      • April 1, 1990
                      • 9893

                      #11
                      Why?

                      Do the drawings for both ballast resistors referenced (initially released in 1954 era) specifically call out the blue stripe/black dot ID marks and a review of the Revision History on these drawings shows NO change reference(s) related to the color coding identification marks?

                      The PN of these resistors is the same for service spare use as it was for final assy production. If there was a need for specific visual ID anywhere, it'd be reasonable to expect it on the assy line where, as the prior thread documents, there WERE periods of both R's being used in the same plant at the same time....

                      Comment

                      • Dale Pearman

                        #12
                        Re: Why?

                        C1 dot/stripe question has been around for years and NEVER have we seen an original resistor with a dot. 1956 and back DID use a 1.4 ohm resistor in SOME GM applications. (Had a half moon on the mounting band. This is the one the repop guys copied and in a 0.3 ohm version sell as a 1962 resistor. Lots of owners are in for a supprise on the show field.)

                        Dale.

                        Comment

                        • Dale Pearman

                          #13
                          Re: Why?

                          C1 dot/stripe question has been around for years and NEVER have we seen an original resistor with a dot. 1956 and back DID use a 1.4 ohm resistor in SOME GM applications. (Had a half moon on the mounting band. This is the one the repop guys copied and in a 0.3 ohm version sell as a 1962 resistor. Lots of owners are in for a supprise on the show field.)

                          Dale.

                          Comment

                          • John McGraw (31656)
                            Expired
                            • January 1, 1999
                            • 8

                            #14
                            Re: Why?

                            Dale, are you saying that the original .3 ohm resistor should only have a solid band and no horshoe cutout in it? I have been trying to get answer to this question for 2 weeks and everybody sidesteps the question. More importantly, what configuration will judge correct with no deducts? Thanks, John

                            Comment

                            • John McGraw (31656)
                              Expired
                              • January 1, 1999
                              • 8

                              #15
                              Re: Why?

                              Dale, are you saying that the original .3 ohm resistor should only have a solid band and no horshoe cutout in it? I have been trying to get answer to this question for 2 weeks and everybody sidesteps the question. More importantly, what configuration will judge correct with no deducts? Thanks, John

                              Comment

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